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Old 06-21-2010, 09:58 AM
 
9,538 posts, read 4,938,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Tell me again why I should care what John Hagee says? He comes with a bag full of controversial comments, so I'll take a bible over Hagee any time. .
Amen....
It's a shame when people give way to gossip magazines, web-sites, columns ..... I do believe God said He hated a gossiper..... am I not right....
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,878 posts, read 2,594,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Tell me again why I should care what John Hagee says? He comes with a bag full of controversial comments, so I'll take a bible over Hagee any time.
Ummmm, because John Hagee is a well-known Bible-thumping preacher, and you said that only an atheist would attribute Hitler's actions to God, but John Hagee the bible-thumper did. Or could you not follow the reason I posted it?

Heartsong
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:17 AM
 
9,538 posts, read 4,938,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Sigh. This is what inevitably happens in these discussions. The personal attacks come out. This is why I said at the top of the thread that this is a difficult topic to be sure. And now Latte'Chic is accusing me of some unspeakable evil that I must justify to myself.

Latte'Chic, your argument is not with me. It is with the scriptures. You do not believe the scriptures. You are still carnal.

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD;
he directs it like a watercourse wherever he pleases.

Prov 20:24 A man's steps are directed by the LORD.
How then can anyone understand his own way?

Jer10:23 I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own;
it is not for man to direct his steps.

Prov 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course,
but the LORD determines his steps.

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Eph 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,


Isaiah 45:7 I make peace, and create evil

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Amos 3:6 shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

1 Kings 22:23 So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you.

Prov 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Genesis 2:9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Josh 23:15 But just as every good promise of the LORD your God has come true, so the LORD will bring on you all the evil he has threatened, until he has destroyed you from this good land he has given you.

2 Thes 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie



You do not believe God does these things, yet there it is plain as day, in the written word. I pray God opens your eyes Latte'chic.

James 1:12-17 does not contradict the above scriptures. God does not tempt. But He does send out lying spirits. He does send out a strong delusion. He does bring evil upon people until they are destroyed from their good land. And God does direct man's steps. Its plain as day in the scriptures.
Did I put legoman in my post.... I don't think so !!!
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
33,352 posts, read 10,848,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Here is a statement of scripture (its Romans 13:1) in various translations.

For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God.
The authorities that exist have been established by God.
For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities existing are appointed by God.

From this I can conclude that Hitlers position of authority and power was established, appointed, and ordained by God. In effect, Hitler was placed there by God.
Romans 13, Legoman interpreption:

Let every person be subject to the Hitler. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists Hitler resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For Hitler is not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of Hitler? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for Hitler is God’s servant for your good.

Does that make sense to you? Was Hitler really appointed by God, a servant of God who was put in place for the good of the people?

Are you surprised to learn that Hitler himself often quoted Romans 13? LOL.

Back in those days 'government' meant many things: self-government, family government, church government and civil government. And again, IMO Romans 13 cannot refer to tyrannical dictators, but instead leaders who are men of God, ans appointed by God, as Paul says God put them in their position for the good of the people and people need to obey them. Hitler does not fall in the category of a leader who was there for the good of the people.



Quote:
What about Pharoah
What about him? God brough him up, so he could display his power in him when he destroyed his entire army. Did he kill the jews? No, God killed the Egyptians.
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
33,352 posts, read 10,848,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Ummmm, because John Hagee is a well-known Bible-thumping preacher, and you said that only an atheist would attribute Hitler's actions to God, but John Hagee the bible-thumper did. Or could you not follow the reason I posted it?
I have no interest in bickering over something like that. Sorry.
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
33,352 posts, read 10,848,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
Amen....
It's a shame when people give way to gossip magazines, web-sites, columns ..... I do believe God said He hated a gossiper..... am I not right....
Yes, absolutely right.
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,391,355 times
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Yes, God did create sin and evilness.... otherwise how would they exist? Anyone who argues against that obviously has no faith that God created everything.... IMO
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:27 AM
 
9,538 posts, read 4,938,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
God does not change, but we do - and He deals with us differently depending on where we are. He would not tempt a babe in Christ, but Abraham was His friend, and He dealt more deeply with him.

Believest thou this?
Little elmer, what is it about this scripture you do not understand?

James 1:12-17
12. Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

13. Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

14. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.

15. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

16. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.

17. Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.


GOD DOES NOT TEMPT !!!!

YES, GOD SENDS TRIALS, TESTING IN OUR LIVES.....AND WHY DOES GOD SEND TRIALS, TESTING OUR WAY....???

I DO BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURE TELLS US......

14. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.

15. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

IT IS THE LUST (SIN) IN OUR OWN HEARTS THAT TEMPTS US TO ACT UPON ITS DESIRES !!!

NOT GOD......
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
33,352 posts, read 10,848,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Yes, God did create sin and evilness.... otherwise how would they exist? Anyone who argues against that obviously has no faith that God created everything.... IMO
Did God create darkness and cold?
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
33,352 posts, read 10,848,853 times
Reputation: 4172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
Little elmer, what is it about this scripture you do not understand?

James 1:12-17
12. Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

13. Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

14. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.

15. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

16. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.

17. Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.


GOD DOES NOT TEMPT !!!!

YES, GOD SENDS TRIALS, TESTING IN OUR LIVES.....AND WHY DOES GOD SEND TRIALS, TESTING OUR WAY....???

I DO BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURE TELLS US......

14. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.

15. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

IT IS THE LUST (SIN) IN OUR OWN HEARTS THAT TEMPTS US TO ACT UPON ITS DESIRES !!!

NOT GOD......
Good post. There is a tempter and accuser, but it is not God.
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