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Old 06-15-2010, 05:33 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,406,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart View Post
KJV translation say this:

Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version)


7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


but NIV says this:




Isaiah 45:7



7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.
Fair enough, but is that much different?

OK say God creates disaster, but not evil. God creates earthquakes, tsunami's, burning buildings, floods, etc. These are physical disasters. What about emotional/social disaster. Death of a loved one. Drug abuse. Addiction. War. Divorce. These are all disasters in life. Does God create those?

What we are really talking about is if God is in control of the bad stuff. And of course He is... He's God! He's in control of everything.

God is the cause of all things - He is the one who created the universe. He is the first cause.

Even if you want to believe it was free will that caused sin, who is it that gave man free will, knowing full well they would sin? GOD.
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Old 06-15-2010, 05:38 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,109,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
We really need to read what it says:

Isa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil. I the LORD do all these.

What does it say?

Darkness and evil are created, yes? Why? What happened to trigger this event?

He MADE Light and Peace. The darkness and evil are a by-product of the things formed, fashioned, or made.

When God made peace, people seek to divide and destroy this peace. This is evil.

When God formed the Light, people didn't love the Light, for there was no Light in them, and they loved the darkness rather than Light.


This is why when all is said and done, there is no longer any darkness. Those to whom call and honor God as God our Father, and serve His Son, will be reconciled TO the Light forever.
Correct.
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Old 06-15-2010, 05:40 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,373,213 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Fair enough, but is that much different?
Oh yes, it is different. Here are the common definitions of the Hebrew word, ra' strongs H7451

adj
1) bad, evil
a) bad, disagreeable, malignant
b) bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)
c) evil, displeasing
d) bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)
e) bad (of value)
f) worse than, worst (comparison)
g) sad, unhappy
h) evil (hurtful)
i) bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)
j) bad, evil, wicked (ethically)
1) in general, of persons, of thoughts
2) deeds, actions
n m
2) evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
a) evil, distress, adversity
b) evil, injury, wrong
c) evil (ethical)
n f
3) evil, misery, distress, injury
a) evil, misery, distress
b) evil, injury, wrong
c) evil (ethical)

Got some disaster in there? Evil is evil, pure and simple.
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Old 06-15-2010, 05:55 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,406,571 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Oh yes, it is different. Here are the common definitions of the Hebrew word, ra' strongs H7451

adj
1) bad, evil
a) bad, disagreeable, malignant
b) bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)
c) evil, displeasing
d) bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)
e) bad (of value)
f) worse than, worst (comparison)
g) sad, unhappy
h) evil (hurtful)
i) bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)
j) bad, evil, wicked (ethically)
1) in general, of persons, of thoughts
2) deeds, actions
n m
2) evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
a) evil, distress, adversity
b) evil, injury, wrong
c) evil (ethical)
n f
3) evil, misery, distress, injury
a) evil, misery, distress
b) evil, injury, wrong
c) evil (ethical)

Got some disaster in there? Evil is evil, pure and simple.
Hi Hotin,

Not sure what you meant. Calamity (disaster) is in there. Adversity is in there too. As well as misery, distress, and injury. Yes, evil is evil pure and simple. Those things are all evils.

Is it evil that 1000s die in an earthquake? Is it evil what happened in Haiti? Is it evil that oil has been spilling into the gulf for weeks now? etc. Or is it only evil if someone did those things on purpose? Did God cause/allow those things on purpose?

Just things to think on... what do you think?
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Old 06-15-2010, 06:09 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,406,571 times
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Just to raise this point again, I think its important to realize evil and sin are not exactly the same thing.

Evil is simply an action or event, but has no moral bias per se on its own. Sin is intent to do wrong (which is evil).

I hope that made sense. Here is an example:

Is it evil to hit a child? Yes. Is it a sin to hit a child? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe you need to hit the child on the back to stop it from choking. The intention is to achieve good through a temporary evil.

Not sure if that was the best example but hopefully you get my point. Sin is about intent.
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Old 06-15-2010, 06:09 PM
 
365 posts, read 424,492 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
We really need to read what it says:

Isa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil. I the LORD do all these.

What does it say?

Darkness and evil are created, yes? Why? What happened to trigger this event?

He MADE Light and Peace. The darkness and evil are a by-product of the things formed, fashioned, or made.

When God made peace, people seek to divide and destroy this peace. This is evil.

When God formed the Light, people didn't love the Light, for there was no Light in them, and they loved the darkness rather than Light.


This is why when all is said and done, there is no longer any darkness. Those to whom call and honor God as God our Father, and serve His Son, will be reconciled TO the Light forever.
Isaiah 45:7



7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.

Nothing about EVIL in that verse.
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Old 06-15-2010, 06:11 PM
 
365 posts, read 424,492 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Fair enough, but is that much different?

OK say God creates disaster, but not evil. God creates earthquakes, tsunami's, burning buildings, floods, etc. These are physical disasters. What about emotional/social disaster. Death of a loved one. Drug abuse. Addiction. War. Divorce. These are all disasters in life. Does God create those?

What we are really talking about is if God is in control of the bad stuff. And of course He is... He's God! He's in control of everything.

God is the cause of all things - He is the one who created the universe. He is the first cause.

Even if you want to believe it was free will that caused sin, who is it that gave man free will, knowing full well they would sin? GOD.
When your children misbehave, don't you create disaster too?

The world is lucky that I am not God, because I would have wiped everyone out a long time ago :P

God is good, God is gracious and merciful and patient for all to repent and come to Him.
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Old 06-15-2010, 06:26 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,406,571 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart View Post
When your children misbehave, don't you create disaster too?

The world is lucky that I am not God, because I would have wiped everyone out a long time ago :P

God is good, God is gracious and merciful and patient for all to repent and come to Him.
Agreed on all points! We are lucky God is not a man, although many seem to think He acts like one...
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Old 06-16-2010, 06:48 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,555,893 times
Reputation: 4461
It's clear to me that God uses all things for His purpose, though those purposes are often higher than we can understand.

The fundamental element of the Christian walk - imo - is the emptying of the vessel so that He can fill it, right? And how does He do it, but by applying the cross to our lives. The cross itself was 'ra', the most horrifying death one could imagine - but God used it to bring the world salvation.

So it is with the carnal nature. "And I have created the waster to destroy" (Isa.54: 16) Within the chaos and destruction we see, is a perfect plan to bring life and peace - this is how He rolls, if you will.
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:27 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,434,483 times
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God planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Not just good but good and evil.

He knew that is what mankind needs. We learn by contrast i.e., good contrasted with evil.

Did God plant the tree of the knowledge of good and "disaster"? No.
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