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Old 06-18-2010, 01:24 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,345 posts, read 3,441,291 times
Reputation: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletWren View Post
God either planned for evil to enter His creation, for some higher purpose that it result in a good thing, OR something could disrupt His plan in which case I don't know HOW we could ever be guaranteed that there will EVER be a point in which something bad could not again disrupt His plans.
That's right - either we except that this was all in the plan, or we demote God to just a very powerful experimenter (and not really "God" as the term is generally defined).
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Old 06-18-2010, 05:45 AM
 
5,431 posts, read 2,555,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
We really need to read what it says:

Isa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil. I the LORD do all these.

What does it say?

Darkness and evil are created, yes? Why? What happened to trigger this event?

He MADE Light and Peace. The darkness and evil are a by-product of the things formed, fashioned, or made.

When God made peace, people seek to divide and destroy this peace. This is evil.

When God formed the Light, people didn't love the Light, for there was no Light in them, and they loved the darkness rather than Light.


This is why when all is said and done, there is no longer any darkness. Those to whom call and honor God as God our Father, and serve His Son, will be reconciled TO the Light forever.
It specifically says that the Lord created Evil. The same word evil there is derived from the same word used to describe the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil.

You could really learn alot once you understand these things. Denial only delays your understanding.
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Old 06-18-2010, 05:52 AM
 
5,431 posts, read 2,555,054 times
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God uses what man may perceive as evil to perform that which is righteousness.

Man uses evil which man may perceive as righteousness to perform that which is evil.
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
33,421 posts, read 10,894,015 times
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My child, there are a few things God did not create:

1. Darkness
2. Cold
3. Evil

What to you mean daddy?

Because dark, cold and evil are not things, or items that can be created. Think about outer space. It is cold and dark, because EVERYTHING is absent. It is 'formless and empty'.

1. Darkness is the absence of light. God created light to replace darkness. Darkness did not need to be created.

Genesis 1 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

2. Cold is the absence of heat. God created heat to replace the cold. Cold did not need to be created, it needed to be replaced.

3. Evil is the absence of good. God created good to replace evil. God is good, and evil is opposite of good. Like darkness and cold, it did not need to be created, it needed to be replaced.
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:02 AM
 
9,538 posts, read 4,946,567 times
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Woe to those from whom God turns away! Yes, God will turn away from a people, nation, etc., handing them over to the darkness of evil !! Yes, God shows the world evil exist, lawlessness, a place outside of being in His will, History has proved this over and over again !!

I do not believe God created evil or sin..... Period !!! Evil is a presence, place of sin, showing us that God is not of it. Anything outside of God's will can only be opposite of the light which is darkness, showing that darkness in the form of evil resulting in sin. There is so much we do not understand and have not seen or experience that God is truly trying to protect the world from.....
God said, He would reign on the just and unjust. Because of those who believe in this world that are the children, people, temple of the Living God !! His presences a cloud of protection covering and protecting all. Therefore with this said, the unbelieving truly does benefit because of those who believe and are the chosen of God.

I do believe that God's grace eventually will/does leave one who continually rejects the will and things of God. We do not know how long is God's longsuffering, patience for one, yet, God's written words speaks there does come a time that if one continues to reject there is a point He hands them over to delusions of the mind and He removes His boundaries from them. Only God knows the heart of one who this will happen !!

Sin, calamity, disasters, is the presence of evil and always happening outside of God's will..... God is not in any form of evil !! He uses it to show His glory, His merciful protection.
When evil is consistently acted upon in a place or person God does remove Himself from those who are giving themselves over to the pleasure of evil, its unrighteousness, sin, denying Him and we do see in His written word what is the consequences, death spiritually and physically, the presences of darkness, a place without order, without the will of God's hands upon it. Look at history, Sodom and Gomorrah.... that is a small taste shown to us of the presence of evil, the effect of sin and what goes on with the heart that is without God!!!

God warns all through His word about evil and to stay away from all forms of evil..... (1Thess.5:22) Abstain from every form of evil.
Our media today shows us the imaginations of mans sin and it playing out the evil within !!! Yet, so many ignor.... saying, oh, it's just make believe. I truly believe it is God showing how dark the heart can be..... a pure wickedness !!!

When a person or nation turns away continually from God, God I believe will eventually remove Himself, removing His boundaries of His grace, love, order, and His cloud of protection and all that is experience is a darkness, a presence of evil, a destruction of life, evil playing its desires out......

This is what I believe the other side of the coin with the parable of Lazarus and the rich man...... it definitely shows the rich man in a place that is not in the boundaries of God's grace. But an outer darkness the world has never experience or seen..... but has been given a foreknowledge of, yet, not believed !!!

For the rich man desiring, hungering to be relieved from his pain, pain is the results or telling us something is wrong and for him to acknowledging a thirst that could not be quenched.... shows a great chasm between God and where He is not.
I truly believe there is a place that is without the sovereignty of God, Himself!! An authority within a territory that is not of Him, but of evil and the results of that evil is sin, a life of destruction.
He has tried to open the eyes to show this to the world but it will not listen and believe..... look at the universe beyond this earth it is an outer darkness, no order, nothing at all, an emptiness, no life!!
Ah, there is a reason for this !!!


I Thess. 2:13
For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.

II Thess.2
1. Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,

2. that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

3. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

4. who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

5. Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

6. And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.

7. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

8. Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

9. that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,

10. and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

11. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,

12. in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

13. But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

14. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15. So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

16. Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace,

17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word.


II Peter 3:10-18
10. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

11. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,

12. looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

13. But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

14. Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,

15. and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,

16. as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

17. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,

18. but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.


AMEN.... !!!
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Old 06-18-2010, 08:53 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 5,858,659 times
Reputation: 58111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
My child, there are a few things God did not create:

1. Darkness
2. Cold
3. Evil

What to you mean daddy?

Because dark, cold and evil are not things, or items that can be created. Think about outer space. It is cold and dark, because EVERYTHING is absent. It is 'formless and empty'.

1. Darkness is the absence of light. God created light to replace darkness. Darkness did not need to be created.

Genesis 1 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

2. Cold is the absence of heat. God created heat to replace the cold. Cold did not need to be created, it needed to be replaced.

3. Evil is the absence of good. God created good to replace evil. God is good, and evil is opposite of good. Like darkness and cold, it did not need to be created, it needed to be replaced.
You're just making this stuff up. Of course they are items that can be created and they WERE created....by God. He created the darkness and evil, as this verse clearly shows.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

HELLO??? How can you sit there and say God didn't create sin and evil when it says so right here??

I gotta go, so I'll be back later this evening. Have a blessed day everyone.
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
33,421 posts, read 10,894,015 times
Reputation: 4179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
You're just making this stuff up. Of course they are items that can be created and they WERE created....by God. He created the darkness and evil, as this verse clearly shows.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

HELLO??? How can you sit there and say God didn't create sin and evil when it says so right here??
Again, darkness existed before God created light, just like cold existed before God created heat. Evil is absence of God. Period.

Isaiah is in reference to Israel's obedience. When they are obedient, there is God's peace, and then they are disobedient, God removes his peace and evil will automatically fill the void. Context matters. If he removed the sun, darkness would fill the void. You can call it 'bringing of darkness' but you are really just removing light.
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Little Elm, TX
6,932 posts, read 6,748,404 times
Reputation: 4102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Again, darkness existed before God created light, just like cold existed before God created heat. Evil is absence of God. Period.

Isaiah is in reference to Israel's obedience. When they are obedient, there is God's peace, and then they are disobedient, God removes his peace and evil will automatically fill the void. Context matters. If he removed the sun, darkness would fill the void. You can call it 'bringing of darkness' but you are really just removing light.
Darkness is simply the absence of light - cold, the absence of heat.

Let's not make it more complicated.
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
33,421 posts, read 10,894,015 times
Reputation: 4179
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Darkness is simply the absence of light - cold, the absence of heat.

Let's not make it more complicated.
That's exactly what I said.

Quote:
My child, there are a few things God did not create:

1. Darkness
2. Cold
3. Evil

What to you mean daddy?

Because dark, cold and evil are not things, or items that can be created. Think about outer space. It is cold and dark, because EVERYTHING is absent. It is 'formless and empty'.

1. Darkness is the absence of light. God created light to replace darkness. Darkness did not need to be created.

Genesis 1 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

2. Cold is the absence of heat. God created heat to replace the cold. Cold did not need to be created, it needed to be replaced.

3. Evil is the absence of good. God created good to replace evil. God is good, and evil is opposite of good. Like darkness and cold, it did not need to be created, it needed to be replaced
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:49 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 5,858,659 times
Reputation: 58111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Again, darkness existed before God created light, just like cold existed before God created heat. Evil is absence of God. Period.

Isaiah is in reference to Israel's obedience. When they are obedient, there is God's peace, and then they are disobedient, God removes his peace and evil will automatically fill the void. Context matters. If he removed the sun, darkness would fill the void. You can call it 'bringing of darkness' but you are really just removing light.
How come every time a fundamentalist can't come up with an argument against a scripture that is plain as the nose on their face they always say "it's referring to Israel" or "it's out of context" or something insane like that? Sheesh, face it already. God created evil, and the verse plainly says that. This verse stands alone and to try and say it applies only to Israel is the most straw-grabbing nonsense I've ever heard.
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