U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-18-2010, 12:57 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,381,641 times
Reputation: 580

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
How come every time a fundamentalist can't come up with an argument against a scripture that is plain as the nose on their face they always say "it's referring to Israel" or "it's out of context" or something insane like that? Sheesh, face it already. God created evil, and the verse plainly says that. This verse stands alone and to try and say it applies only to Israel is the most straw-grabbing nonsense I've ever heard.
Now you know how some of us feels when dealing with Universalists...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-18-2010, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,463,141 times
Reputation: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
Woe to those from whom God turns away! Yes, God will turn away from a people, nation, etc., handing them over to the darkness of evil !! Yes, God shows the world evil exist, lawlessness, a place outside of being in His will, History has proved this over and over again !!

I do not believe God created evil or sin..... Period !!! Evil is a presence, place of sin, showing us that God is not of it. Anything outside of God's will can only be opposite of the light which is darkness, showing that darkness in the form of evil resulting in sin. There is so much we do not understand and have not seen or experience that God is truly trying to protect the world from.....
God said, He would reign on the just and unjust. Because of those who believe in this world that are the children, people, temple of the Living God !! His presences a cloud of protection covering and protecting all. Therefore with this said, the unbelieving truly does benefit because of those who believe and are the chosen of God.

I do believe that God's grace eventually will/does leave one who continually rejects the will and things of God. We do not know how long is God's longsuffering, patience for one, yet, God's written words speaks there does come a time that if one continues to reject there is a point He hands them over to delusions of the mind and He removes His boundaries from them. Only God knows the heart of one who this will happen !!

Sin, calamity, disasters, is the presence of evil and always happening outside of God's will..... God is not in any form of evil !! He uses it to show His glory, His merciful protection.
When evil is consistently acted upon in a place or person God does remove Himself from those who are giving themselves over to the pleasure of evil, its unrighteousness, sin, denying Him and we do see in His written word what is the consequences, death spiritually and physically, the presences of darkness, a place without order, without the will of God's hands upon it. Look at history, Sodom and Gomorrah.... that is a small taste shown to us of the presence of evil, the effect of sin and what goes on with the heart that is without God!!!

God warns all through His word about evil and to stay away from all forms of evil..... (1Thess.5:22) Abstain from every form of evil.
Our media today shows us the imaginations of mans sin and it playing out the evil within !!! Yet, so many ignor.... saying, oh, it's just make believe. I truly believe it is God showing how dark the heart can be..... a pure wickedness !!!

When a person or nation turns away continually from God, God I believe will eventually remove Himself, removing His boundaries of His grace, love, order, and His cloud of protection and all that is experience is a darkness, a presence of evil, a destruction of life, evil playing its desires out......

This is what I believe the other side of the coin with the parable of Lazarus and the rich man...... it definitely shows the rich man in a place that is not in the boundaries of God's grace. But an outer darkness the world has never experience or seen..... but has been given a foreknowledge of, yet, not believed !!!

For the rich man desiring, hungering to be relieved from his pain, pain is the results or telling us something is wrong and for him to acknowledging a thirst that could not be quenched.... shows a great chasm between God and where He is not.
I truly believe there is a place that is without the sovereignty of God, Himself!! An authority within a territory that is not of Him, but of evil and the results of that evil is sin, a life of destruction.
He has tried to open the eyes to show this to the world but it will not listen and believe..... look at the universe beyond this earth it is an outer darkness, no order, nothing at all, an emptiness, no life!!
Ah, there is a reason for this !!!


I Thess. 2:13
For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.

II Thess.2
1. Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,

2. that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

3. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

4. who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

5. Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

6. And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.

7. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

8. Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

9. that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,

10. and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

11. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,

12. in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

13. But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

14. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15. So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

16. Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace,

17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word.


II Peter 3:10-18
10. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

11. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,

12. looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

13. But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

14. Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,

15. and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,

16. as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

17. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,

18. but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.


AMEN.... !!!

Thank you.

Where there are two gathered in your name, there you'll find Him in the midst. Bless your heart. Let the people, amen!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2010, 01:30 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,770,263 times
Reputation: 58199
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Now you know how some of us feels when dealing with Universalists...
At least there's scripture to support Universalism and what I'm saying here....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2010, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,463,141 times
Reputation: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
At least there's scripture to support Universalism and what I'm saying here....
Girrrl, there's scripture enough in the Bible to support just about anything a man's heart can conceive......it all depends to whom/what "spirit" one's listening to, amen? That's why it's so important to stay "suited" up in God's word! I mean, sleep in the "armor" if we must! You understand?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2010, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,651 posts, read 32,096,873 times
Reputation: 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
Girrrl, there's scripture enough in the Bible to support just about anything a man's heart can conceive......it all depends to whom/what "spirit" one's listening to, amen? That's why it's so important to stay "suited" up in God's word! I mean, sleep in the "armor" if we must! You understand?
It is important to read scripure in context and understand the meaning. Cherry picking verses leads to intellectual dishonesty.

Do I create darkness every time I turn off the lights? Do I create cold when I turn off the heat? No.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2010, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,693,931 times
Reputation: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It is important to read scripure in context and understand the meaning. Cherry picking verses leads to intellectual dishonesty.

Do I create darkness every time I turn off the lights? Do I create cold when I turn off the heat? No.
I completely agree. Cherry picking verses is sooo dangerous. I remember a few years ago one of my husband's friends told me that he can have sex with whomever he wants because of 1 Cor 10:23 "Everything is permissible- but not everthing is beneficial." He said, "God doesn't care what I do and it's right there in the Bible."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2010, 03:40 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,583,644 times
Reputation: 4469
Dangerous Bible 101

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Waco01.jpg/200px-Waco01.jpg (broken link)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2010, 04:05 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,770,263 times
Reputation: 58199
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Dangerous Bible 101
Amen to that Elmer!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2010, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,390,352 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
dangerous bible 101
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2010, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Canada
6,643 posts, read 4,010,608 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
pnuema, I respect your opinion but remember - we cannot put God in the catagory of "good and evil" - the Tree of Life is a firm lesson on a concept that the natural mind cannot process.

God can create everything in both categories, yet remain holy - for "holy" is righteous perfection (we cannot conceive of such), not "good".
Brother, the natural mind cannot understand anything spiritual, but we are to put on the mind of Christ, which is a mind that understands all things.

We are to understand these thing LE.

And God cannot according to Jesus create in both catagories

EITHER make the tree good and its fruit good OR make the tree evil and its fruit evil.

A good tree CANNOT bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit.

Brother we are to know those who are Christs by the fruit that they produce, if God can produce both ggod and evil fruit how in the world can we distiguish those who are Christs and those who aint?

For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Therefore, as God creates by His WORD and evil comes out from God it come from the abundance of His heart. Thus God would not be holy, but rather just as stained as we are whne evil proceeds from our mouths.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top