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Old 06-19-2010, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,379,961 times
Reputation: 437

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
God does not make ANYONE believe. You want to understand what election is? Here you go...


Election pertains to Three different things.

1) The election of Christ. 2) the election of Israel. 3) the election of the believer.

The election of the believer refers to the fact that he is elected to equal privilege and equal opportunity. A person doesn't believe because he is elected. He is elected because he has believed.

Now, I will direct you to the site of one of my pastor/teachers concerning the meanng of election and predestination.

Election is for Believers Only - God Never Elected Anyone to Hell... Junior Trees - Prep School - Robert McLaughlin Bible Ministries / Grace Bible Church - bible doctrine truth in Christ

Read it or don't read it. Your choice.
I don't think I will read it. You don't listen to a word anyone else says, so.........

You really need to start thinking on your own. Use the Spirit.
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Old 06-19-2010, 03:40 PM
 
20,297 posts, read 15,638,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeallcomm View Post
And also Mike....in respects to 2Th 2:14.... God still does the CHOOSING FIRST. This we cannot deny..

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation THROUGH sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

He still is the one responsible Mike, not man's supposed 'freewill'.
I have already straightened you out with regard to this in post #98.
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Old 06-19-2010, 03:42 PM
 
20,297 posts, read 15,638,239 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I don't think I will read it. You don't listen to a word anyone else says, so.........

You really need to start thinking on your own. Use the Spirit.
Then remain in ignorance of the truth.
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Old 06-19-2010, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,379,961 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Then remain in ignorance of the truth.
You, too!
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Old 06-19-2010, 03:52 PM
 
20,297 posts, read 15,638,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Free will is a delusion, most likely part of Satan's deception on the whole world. We see how Mike's theology is based on free will... yet a fundamental belief in free will leads to the pride and boasting in one's own salvation, yet out of the other side of the mouth we hear that no one can boast...

Free will leads to statements of people being "wise" enough to choose Jesus, or being stupid and ending up in hell... if that's not boasting I don't know what is... Free will makes you your own savior, giving you the power to VETO God's own desires.

Free will is a pipe dream, a wish in the eyes of many. It gives you the illusion you are the master and commander of your own domain. Yet free will fails when analyzed from every possible angle. It makes no sense logically, scientifically, philosophically, or scripturally.
Foolish thinking. Free will with regard to the Gospel is simply 'yes' or 'no'.

Acts. 16:30 ...Sirs, what must I do to be saved?'' [31] And they said, ''Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved...

Free will.
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Old 06-19-2010, 03:55 PM
 
309 posts, read 295,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You certainly are sorry. For you deliberately ignore what I said immediately after that. Which was this...''Now, apart from that passage, God calls all through the Gospel (2 Thess 2:14) and He chooses all who answer the call through positive volition toward the Gospel.'' Post #82.

You leave that out and then go off on an arguement that is completely unfounded.



God has made Himself known to all. The universe and nature declare His existence. He has more specifically revealed Himself through the prophets of old, and through the Gospel. The hearer of the Gospel then must decide for or against Christ. You have understood nothing of what I have said. I know far better than you what is involved in the issue of man's free will with regard to salvation. You people who deny man's free will give it a meaning that isn't warranted and then argue against the false meaning you yourself have given it.

God reveals Himself and man answers yes or no. It is that simple.

And God sends delusion on those who have already rejected the truth. To those who reject the truth, God allows them to become even more hardened against the truth.

Regarding Israel, they were given a chance to recieve Christ as the Messiah. They rejected Him. As a result, as a part of their national discipline, they are under a partial hardening of the heart until the end of the Tribulation when they will turn back to God. Israel had always been a rebellious lot over most of their history. It need not have been so, but it was. And God worked with that. God uses man's free will to His own glory. That does not nullify the reality of man's free will. It means that God fulfills His purpose using man's free will.

I ignored no thing Mike, you SEE 2Th 2:14 but you don't see (rather blinded to seeing) vs 13.

2Th 2:13 ......God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

And with in respect of ALL that you have written after this, you have AGAIN, with man's reason (which you listen to), effectively made this verse...

"you have NOT chosen me, but I have chosen you"

into this for all to see....

"you HAVE chosen me, therefore I will chose you"

You are telling us that this ONE verse means absolutely nothing to people today. This is ONE verse out of many Mike. We have MANY other verses to discuss. And for God NOT causing (making) people do things, this goes against scripture sir.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and CAUSE (research the meaning of this word Mike) you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Yet another scripture for us to discuss. Still have many more...

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
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Old 06-19-2010, 03:55 PM
 
20,297 posts, read 15,638,239 times
Reputation: 7408
All right. How about keeping this thread on topic. That means no more questions about free will, or election, or predestination. You know what the thread is about. If you can't keep to it then stay off the thread.
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Old 06-19-2010, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,379,961 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
All right. How about keeping this thread on topic. That means no more questions about free will, or election, or predestination. You know what the thread is about. If you can't keep to it then stay off the thread.

Do you want me to tell the mods to delete your posts, then?

The subject of "free will" is tightly connected to the Restoration of All Things, by the way.
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:03 PM
 
309 posts, read 295,051 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Foolish thinking. Free will with regard to the Gospel is simply 'yes' or 'no'.

Acts. 16:30 ...Sirs, what must I do to be saved?'' [31] And they said, ''Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved...

Free will.
Uuuh...No...It is a CHOICE Mike, this is NOT the definition of 'freewill'. Lookup the defintion. This 'choice' is exactly what has been posed all throughout the bible. The question is ...

APART from the help of GOD, WHAT DID THEY CHOOSE?

Nobody is saying they didn't have a choice...geesh
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:11 PM
 
309 posts, read 295,051 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Do you want me to tell the mods to delete your posts, then?

The subject of "free will" is tightly connected to the Restoration of All Things, by the way.
Exactly...why can't I rep? This is all Truth. This 'freewill' is what is seperating Man from God IMO. And the illusion of 'it' was PURPOSELY put there by God. All through the bible MAN chose what MAN chose and looked what happened. Total truth herefornow.....total truth.
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