The Restoration of all Things; Acts 3:21. (priest, Isaac, virgin, messianic)

[joeallcomm]

[quote=Mike555;14782045]

To the contrary. That translation was my pastor's own corrected translation of that verse. A better translation. He had 5 years of Hebrew and ten years of Greek. And He knew what he was doing. His name was Robert B. Thieme Jr. of Berachah Church of Houston TX.

No, it is not saying that. 2 Peter 1:20,21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture originates from one's own disclosure. For prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spoke as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

The passage is saying that prophecy which has been set down in Scripture originated from the Holy Spirit and not from men.




Scripture does build on scripture. That doesn't mean however that there is no truth in any one particular verse. And again, something need be said only once for it to be true.

There you go, trying to impress people again by stating a certain scholars credentials. I am sure that out of all the scholars I listed, I could find one that had many more years learning the Hebrew and Greek languages and "knew what they were doing". Does that mean then, that my scholar wins then Mike? This is a futile "he said she said" arguement. I can only simply say that you are wrong in this matter.

This goes back to the divine decrees and the omniscience of God in eternity past. God elected Israel for a purpose. You can't seem to understand that the sovereignty of God exists along with the free will of man by divine decree. You continue to fail to distinquish between God's directive will, His overruling will, and His permissive will. My answer to all of your objections which follow is going to be to refer to the divine decrees which is the subject of my new thread.

And I have posted my questions and ALL the scriptures again there as well, but ALAS you will not answer them Mike, because you are unable to. You cannot beleive that man CANNOT EVER make an UNcaused Choice, thereby bringing man's supposed 'freewill' to nothing more than a Will that ALWAYS and CONTINUALLY chooses against God (these are YOUR words Mike, now you are agruing with yourself). You have been proving my point all along.

You really need to familiarize yourself with the divine decrees and how they relate to man's free will.

And you need to answer simple questions like "Did you choose Christ" and "Does EVERYONE have the Holy Spirit?"

Quite simply, the omniscience of God knew in eternity past, the freewill decisions of man and put them into the divine decrees. God chooses man based on His omniscience of the facts. This is explained more fully in my other thread.

I posted in that thread, but you still wont answer though. All I can say (and the SCRIPTURES I posted there) about your other thread is that you are incorrect in everything when it comes to claiming freewill.

So you would have others believe. It is not necessary to comment on each individual verse that you think disproves man's free will. I have provided passages that show that man does have voliton. And I have in my new thread gone into some detail about the divine Divines, the soveignty of God, and the free will of man.

There you go again Mike, we are back to the beginning again. So AGAIN I ask, "If those said scriptures DO NOT prove that man DOES NOT have a freewill, the (Here is the Million Dollare Question again)....."WHAT DO THEY MEAN THEN MIKE????" And No Mike, you have NOT provided scripts that show prove 'freewill', you have only provided scriptures that state a "since the beginning CHOICE" and have proven BY YOUR OWN words that they are incapable of choosing the GOOD CHOICE, without God CAUSING them to (thats NOT freewill). You said it yourself, "they CANNOT bring themself to believe". And right you are Mike.

They had every chance. The Gospel call is given to all. Those who reject Christ do so of their own free will.

Great God you got there Mike. He knows, BEFORE he created a certain man, that he would NOT choose Him (and go to ET), and He creates this man ANYWAYS. You have just singlehandedly brought NO PURPOSE at all for this man being created in the first place.

Do yourself a favor and learn something about the divine decrees. Further, learn something about the various categories of God's will. His directive, Overruling, and permissive will.

All I need to know Mike is that My God is Soveriegn over ALL THINGS. Your God keeps making Plan after Plan after Plan, because He CANNOT control His creation. In your Gods world, the POT can actually TALK to the POTTER.

God has always initiated contact with man. You persist in denying that I have said that.

Again, learn something about the divine decrees.

Two words. Divine decrees.

Dodge, dodge, dodge, that is all we see from you.

I told you that the Holy Spirit makes the Gospel understandable to the spiritually dead unbeliever when he hears the Gospel. That was quite plain. How is it that you are unable to comprehend so clear a statement as that?

It is YOU who cannot comprehend your OWN WORDS. If the Spirit makes (ooh ohh look...I dont even have to highlight it now, you already did.) them understand, then it CAUSES them to understand. And it is funny in the thread you started, that you state "the CAUSE and EFFECT" aspects. God CAUSES one to be 'hardened' and he CAUSES one to NOT be 'hardened'. Again, you are argueing with your own words.

Now, during the church-age, every believer has the Holy Spirit indwelling his body. The other two members of the Trinity also indwell the body of the believer.

Wow....finally an answer. So, if the Spirit IS NOT in someone, then they are INCAPABLE of 'understanding' then, therefore they are INCAPABLE of choosing God. This then is ALL OF GOD and not of man.

Adam and the woman did not reject God all along. It is unknown how long they were in the garden before they disobeyed God. It could have been weeks or many many years.

Once again, man's words, not the bibles.

It was not God's plan for them to reject Him. He knew that they would reject them. But that doesn't mean that He wanted them to. And again, learn something about the angelic conflict and the divine decrees.

You are confusing your self here. If He knew (BEFORE He created them) they would reject Him, then the PLAN was formed from that knowledge. So which came first Mike, His Plan or His knowing that they would reject Him?

They ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It wasn't an apple, but it was a real fruit. Apparently, you allegorize the Bible where it should be taken literally.

LOL....ok..what was it then, and orange, a bannana, WHAT. You dont have eyes to see such things Mike.

God created man and He permitted the fall. He didn't cause it, He didn't desire it, but He allowed it under His permissive will. It is the permissive will of God which allows man to exercise his free will in disobedience to God.

Did you write this all by yourself, or did you quoted it from your scholars. The bible does not claim this.

Once again, this all goes back to the divine decrees and God's omniscience regarding their choices.

You keep harping on the touch of God when its been said repeatedly that God initiates contact. As in the call of the Gospel.

Try Matthew 8:5-10 concerning the Roman centurians faith in Christ.

Or Matthew 15:21-27 concerning the Syrophoenician woman.

Or Luke 18:35-42.

Here are your own words again "God initiates contact", which expains once a again that God ALWAYS does FIRST. The ones called "ALWAYS and CONSISTANTLY" never answer the the call. The ones that God CHOOSES out of the Called answer it.

Every passage that tells you to believe in Christ, or to have faith in Christ tells you that you can choose for Christ.

As said, this has been asked 'since creation', but in your own words we know what they will ALWAYS and CONSISTANTLY choose.

I also said that they were under discipline for having first rejected the Messiah. God didn't just cause Israel heart to be hardened for no reason. Christ had previously offered to bring in the Miillennium kingdom to Israel before they had rejected Him as Messiah.

There is that word CAUSE again. To the rest....well this Mike555 guy says they ALWAYS and CONSISTANTLY resisted Him, so what would a promise of the Kingdom matter?

Don't presume to tell me how to study the Bible. You are so far from the truth, I doubt that you will ever find it.

You just keep listening to your Mother sir, God put you there and He will TOUCH you to bring you out.

Luke 1:33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever; and His Kingdom will have no end. (Eternity is in view)

Rom 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. (Eternity is in view)

Rom 9:5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever Amen.. (Eternity is in view)

As already stated, the phrase forever and ever-to the ages of the ages-'eis tous aionas ton aionon' is, by agreement of the most respected scholars and Greek lexicographers, the most emphatic, the strongest way of stating eternity in the Greek language.

Just as I suspected. It does matter to them or you whether it is the phrase "eis tous aionas ton aionon" appears or not appears. You will take it as 'eternity' anyways, as long as it makes sense in ANY verse, whether it be in the SINGULAR form PLURAL form PHRASE form. This is too funny. You and your scholars are trying to make an UN-emphasisable word like ETERNITY into something MORE than ETERNITY. You and your scholars (with their emphatic excuse) still have not answered my statement here...

I have pointed out to you before that there are several occurrences of the phrase “age [SINGULAR] and age [SINGULAR]”. Again, if the phrase “unto the ages [PLURAL] of the ages [PLURAL]” EMPHATICALLY means ETERNITY as you say, then the SUNGULAR form “age to the age” (Heb 1:8) MUST emphatically mean “half way”, right?? Or maybe the SINGULAR/PLURAL form “age of the age(s)” (Eph 3:21) must emphatically mean three quarters of the way, right?
Tell me… what does the phrases with “age/age” and “age/ages” mean if ONLY the “plural/plural” form EMPHATICALLY means Eternal?????

There is no dilemma. Except for the uni's who are forced to deny that God's glory and reign are forever in order to deny that aionios means eternal, so that they can promote Universalism.

TWO verses, both of which use the same phrase 'eis tous aionas ton aionon'.

Rev 7:12 ''Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.''


Rev 20:10 ''And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The first verse is a doxology about the duration of the glory of God, which is forever and ever.



The second verse is about the duration of Satan's and the beast and the false prophet's torment using the exact same phrase as the other verse which describes the duration of God's glory. THE DURATION OF SATAN'S TORMENT IS FOREVER AND EVER.


To deny the eternal duration of the lake of fire, universalist are forced to deny the eternal duration of God's glory.


To deny that the Bible uses the word aionios for things of an eternal nature is foolish. Universalist's have to deny that it means eternal in order to hold to their heresy of universalism. I have already listed passages in another thread where aionios is used for the glory of God and the length of His rule, which is unending. And you just reject them and blaspheme God in the process by denying that His glory is eternal.

For one to have such a 'carnal' understanding of the scriptures, I can understand how you can make such an arguement. But there are things that your mind just will NOT understand at this point. You are still drinking the milk.

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

And no, I am not impressed with a bunch of heretic universalist scholars who have an agenda to promote universalism.

Just because the Mother called it heretical does not mean it is.

As for your continued denial of the free will of man, I have already done another thread on it, and I am not going to continue arguing about it here.

Good, I will follow. I am so excited. I might get answers then.



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[Mike555]

[quote=joeallcomm;14787730]

Originally Posted by Mike555

There you go, trying to impress people again by stating a certain scholars credentials. I am sure that out of all the scholars I listed, I could find one that had many more years learning the Hebrew and Greek languages and "knew what they were doing". Does that mean then, that my scholar wins then Mike? This is a futile "he said she said" arguement. I can only simply say that you are wrong in this matter.


And I have posted my questions and ALL the scriptures again there as well, but ALAS you will not answer them Mike, because you are unable to. You cannot beleive that man CANNOT EVER make an UNcaused Choice, thereby bringing man's supposed 'freewill' to nothing more than a Will that ALWAYS and CONTINUALLY chooses against God (these are YOUR words Mike, now you are agruing with yourself). You have been proving my point all along.

You really need to familiarize yourself with the divine decrees and how they relate to man's free will.

And you need to answer simple questions like "Did you choose Christ" and "Does EVERYONE have the Holy Spirit?"



I posted in that thread, but you still wont answer though. All I can say (and the SCRIPTURES I posted there) about your other thread is that you are incorrect in everything when it comes to claiming freewill.



There you go again Mike, we are back to the beginning again. So AGAIN I ask, "If those said scriptures DO NOT prove that man DOES NOT have a freewill, the (Here is the Million Dollare Question again)....."WHAT DO THEY MEAN THEN MIKE????" And No Mike, you have NOT provided scripts that show prove 'freewill', you have only provided scriptures that state a "since the beginning CHOICE" and have proven BY YOUR OWN words that they are incapable of choosing the GOOD CHOICE, without God CAUSING them to (thats NOT freewill). You said it yourself, "they CANNOT bring themself to believe". And right you are Mike.



Great God you got there Mike. He knows, BEFORE he created a certain man, that he would NOT choose Him (and go to ET), and He creates this man ANYWAYS. You have just singlehandedly brought NO PURPOSE at all for this man being created in the first place.



All I need to know Mike is that My God is Soveriegn over ALL THINGS. Your God keeps making Plan after Plan after Plan, because He CANNOT control His creation. In your Gods world, the POT can actually TALK to the POTTER.




Dodge, dodge, dodge, that is all we see from you.



It is YOU who cannot comprehend your OWN WORDS. If the Spirit makes (ooh ohh look...I dont even have to highlight it now, you already did.) them understand, then it CAUSES them to understand. And it is funny in the thread you started, that you state "the CAUSE and EFFECT" aspects. God CAUSES one to be 'hardened' and he CAUSES one to NOT be 'hardened'. Again, you are argueing with your own words.



Wow....finally an answer. So, if the Spirit IS NOT in someone, then they are INCAPABLE of 'understanding' then, therefore they are INCAPABLE of choosing God. This then is ALL OF GOD and not of man.



Once again, man's words, not the bibles.



You are confusing your self here. If He knew (BEFORE He created them) they would reject Him, then the PLAN was formed from that knowledge. So which came first Mike, His Plan or His knowing that they would reject Him?



LOL....ok..what was it then, and orange, a bannana, WHAT. You dont have eyes to see such things Mike.



Did you write this all by yourself, or did you quoted it from your scholars. The bible does not claim this.

Once again, this all goes back to the divine decrees and God's omniscience regarding their choices.



Here are your own words again "God initiates contact", which expains once a again that God ALWAYS does FIRST. The ones called "ALWAYS and CONSISTANTLY" never answer the the call. The ones that God CHOOSES out of the Called answer it.




As said, this has been asked 'since creation', but in your own words we know what they will ALWAYS and CONSISTANTLY choose.



There is that word CAUSE again. To the rest....well this Mike555 guy says they ALWAYS and CONSISTANTLY resisted Him, so what would a promise of the Kingdom matter?



You just keep listening to your Mother sir, God put you there and He will TOUCH you to bring you out.



Just as I suspected. It does matter to them or you whether it is the phrase "eis tous aionas ton aionon" appears or not appears. You will take it as 'eternity' anyways, as long as it makes sense in ANY verse, whether it be in the SINGULAR form PLURAL form PHRASE form. This is too funny. You and your scholars are trying to make an UN-emphasisable word like ETERNITY into something MORE than ETERNITY. You and your scholars (with their emphatic excuse) still have not answered my statement here...






For one to have such a 'carnal' understanding of the scriptures, I can understand how you can make such an arguement. But there are things that your mind just will NOT understand at this point. You are still drinking the milk.

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.



Just because the Mother called it heretical does not mean it is.



Good, I will follow. I am so excited. I might get answers then.
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]

I already told you in the other thread boy, that because of your attitude, you have been given all the attention from me you are going to get.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Mike555

To the contrary. God has predetermined in the divine decrees, which is based on His omniscience of all the facts concerning every decision that would ever be made by His creatures, the certain futurition of those things.

Nonsense . . . He knows because it is all before Him as a single moment. Inour timeline . . . WE are making our choices under the spiritual INFLUENCE of God . . . NOT any mandates.

And as for your dismissal of the need to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation, that demonstrates that you don't understand the issue in salvation and are therefore not saved.

Stop misrepresenting what I say.I do NOT dismiss the need to "believe on" Jesus Christ . . . something very different and far more important than mere proclamation of "belief in."

[Mike555]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Nonsense . . . He knows because it is all before Him as a single moment. Inour timeline . . . WE are making our choices under the spiritual INFLUENCE of God . . . NOT any mandates.

You need to read my thread on the divine decrees. God decreed man's free will decisions based on His omniscience of the fact that man would make those decisions. The decrees of God establish that the decisions of man will certainly happen. They do not make those decisions happen. The divine decrees apply only to the actual. Not to the potential alternate decisions that might of been made. In all the possible decisions that might have been made with regard to some particular thing, a man makes a decision to do one particular thing. Therefore, knowing that the man would make that particular choice, God decreed that decision, making that decision a certainty.

Stop misrepresenting what I say.I do NOT dismiss the need to "believe on" Jesus Christ . . . something very different and far more important than mere proclamation of "belief in."

There is no difference.

To believe in/on Christ means to place your faith in Christ for salvation. To place your trust, your confidence in Christ.

You do not believe that Jesus Christ is God. Is that a correct statement?

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Mike555

You need to read my thread on the divine decrees. God decreed man's free will decisions based on His omniscience of the fact that man would make those decisions. The decrees of God establish that the decisions of man will certainly happen. They do not make those decisions happen. The divine decrees apply only to the actual. Not to the potential alternate decisions that might of been made. In all the possible decisions that might have been made with regard to some particular thing, a man makes a decision to do one particular thing. Therefore, knowing that the man would make that particular choice, God decreed that decision, making that decision a certainty.

More nonsense. Knowing what will be decided does NOT make anything a certainty. While the process of decision and the alternates are being considered . . . our reality in our time line is unfolding and becoming in our sub-light material existence. Nothing has been decided or certain. God ( and our composite consciousness) is pure energy (exist at the square of the speed of light). So God is in the position of having seen the reality in our "sub-light" time line play out.(He is watching the "movie" of our reality and knows what happens) while we are living out our reality (like a tape-delayed broadcast). God knows what we actually did choose . . . not what He determined we should choose. We do not have that knowledge in our "sub-light" material bodies . . . so everything truly IS our choice when we make it. God does not intervene in our material reality ever . . . because we have been given Dominion. But He does persuade and influence us Spiritually (in our consciousness) more and more as we develop spiritually and make our choices.

There is no difference.

To believe in/on Christ means to place your faith in Christ for salvation. To place your trust, your confidence in Christ.

This is ridiculous . . . even the "devils and demons" believe in Jesus and tremble. "Believe on" is a whole other ballgame involving our life commitment to follow His ways in "love of God and each other."

You do not believe that Jesus Christ is God. Is that a correct statement?

NO . . . it is NOT. You should have read my posts on personhood being invested ENTIRELY in CONSCIOUSNESS. IF two or more consciousnesses become identical . . . they are the same "person." Once Jesus' human consciousness achieved perfect resonance with God's consciousness . . . they were IDENTICAL. There was no difference. When His human consciousness became reborn as Spirit upon His death . . . His Holy Spirit (identical to God but in human form) became available to us in our human consciousnesses . . . as guide, persuader, Comforter. There is only ONE God, Mike.

[Mike555]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

More nonsense. Knowing what will be decided does NOT make anything a certainty. While the process of decision and the alternates are being considered . . . our reality in our time line is unfolding and becoming in our sub-light material existence. Nothing has been decided or certain. God ( and our composite consciousness) is pure energy (exist at the square of the speed of light). So God is in the position of having seen the reality in our "sub-light" time line play out.(He is watching the "movie" of our reality and knows what happens) while we are living out our reality (like a tape-delayed broadcast). God knows what we actually did choose . . . not what He determined we should choose. We do not have that knowledge in our "sub-light" material bodies . . . so everything truly IS our choice when we make it. God does not intervene in our material reality ever . . . because we have been given Dominion. But He does persuade and influence us Spiritually (in our consciousness) more and more as we develop spiritually and make our choices.

You read without comprehension. The decree of God is based on His omniscience. As a result of knowing a decision a person would make, out of the possible decisions that person could have made, God then decreed that that particular decision would certainly take place. The decree didn't cause the decision. The person's free will caused the decision. The decree of God allowed that decision to be certain. Nothing, absolutely nothing can exist as reality unless God decrees it. God decreed that man would have free will. He then decreed that man's free will choices would become certain. God's decree recognize man's free will decisions and make them a reality. They don't cause the decisions to be made. They allow them to become a reality.

This is ridiculous . . . even the "devils and demons" believe in Jesus and tremble. "Believe on" is a whole other ballgame involving our life commitment to follow His ways in "love of God and each other."

The demons aren't placing their faith in Christ for salvation. They know that He is God. But they don't and can't receive Jesus as Savior. People can and must believe in Christ in order to be saved. And again, that means to place their faith in Christ, to place their confidence in Christ that He will save those who have believed in Him. Salvation results at the moment of initial faith in Christ. It is not a lifetime of commitment. The moment a person understands the issue in salvation and makes a decision to receive Christ as Savior, he is eternally saved regardless of how he lives his life after being saved. As a result of being saved he SHOULD live his life as unto the Lord. But whether he does or not has no bearing on his eternal security.

NO . . . it is NOT. You should have read my posts on personhood being invested ENTIRELY in CONSCIOUSNESS. IF two or more consciousnesses become identical . . . they are the same "person." Once Jesus' human consciousness achieved perfect resonance with God's consciousness . . . they were IDENTICAL. There was no difference. When His human consciousness became reborn as Spirit upon His death . . . His Holy Spirit (identical to God but in human form) became available to us in our human consciousnesses . . . as guide, persuader, Comforter. There is only ONE God, Mike.

Yours are the words of some kind of new age cosmic doctrine. Jesus did not achieve perfect resonance with God's consciousness.

Jesus Christ as God, as the second Person of the Trinity, has always existed. He took the form of a man and came into the world. His human name is Jesus. From the time of His incarnation, He is the unique Person of the universe. He is eternal and infinite God and true humanity in one person forever. He is the God-man. Not half God and half man. He is fully God and fully man. Two separate and distinct natures in one Person. As the baby in the cradle, He was eternal God holding the universe together.

The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit. The third Person of the trinity. He is separate and distinct from God the Father and He is separate and distinct from Jesus Christ. And the Holy Spirit indwells the body of the believer. Not the consciousness. 1 Corinthians 6:19 ''Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? Jesus Christ asked the Father to send the Holy Spirit.

John 14:16 ''And I will ask the Father, and He will send another helper, that He may be with you forever; [17] that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Mike555

You read without comprehension.

OH the irony!!!

The decree of God is based on His omniscience. As a result of knowing a decision a person would make, out of the possible decisions that person could have made, God then decreed that that particular decision would certainly take place. The decree didn't cause the decision. The person's free will caused the decision. The decree of God allowed that decision to be certain. Nothing, absolutely nothing can exist as reality unless God decrees it. God decreed that man would have free will. He then decreed that man's free will choices would become certain. God's decree recognize man's free will decisions and make them a reality. They don't cause the decisions to be made. They allow them to become a reality.

Decree schmecree . . . God decreed we have Dominion and free will within this material world with all His laws and constraints on it, period. Everything else is up to us. All your paradoxical human inventions of Omni-this, omni-that . . . are just that . . . human creations in ignorance to make sure God is sufficiently "Godly" to qualify as God!

The demons aren't placing their faith in Christ for salvation. They know that He is God. But they don't and can't receive Jesus as Savior. People can and must believe in Christ in order to be saved. And again, that means to place their faith in Christ, to place their confidence in Christ that He will save those who have believed in Him. Salvation results at the moment of initial faith in Christ. It is not a lifetime of commitment. The moment a person understands the issue in salvation and makes a decision to receive Christ as Savior, he is eternally saved regardless of how he lives his life after being saved. As a result of being saved he SHOULD live his life as unto the Lord. But whether he does or not has no bearing on his eternal security.

Go back to your teachers and ask them to tell you what the difference is between "believe in" and "believe on" using the original language connotations. Of course . . . they may not know since they taught you this nonsense.

Yours are the words of some kind of new age cosmic doctrine. Jesus did not achieve perfect resonance with God's consciousness.

ANYTHING more intelligently discerned with real knowledge and understanding . . . instead of primitive ignorance . . . would seem "New Age."

Jesus Christ as God, as the second Person of the Trinity, has always existed. He took the form of a man and came into the world.

What took the form of a man? How did it come into the world? (Think "consciousness") Nevermind . . . magic! . . . right?

His human name is Jesus. From the time of His incarnation, He is the unique Person of the universe.

He is the unique HUMAN consciousness of the Universe . . . which is what enables Him to save the rest of us HUMAN consciousnesses and provide the connection to God's consciousness.

He is eternal and infinite God and true humanity in one person forever. He is the God-man. Not half God and half man. He is fully God and fully man. Two separate and distinct natures in one Person. As the baby in the cradle, He was eternal God holding the universe together.

How you can be so close to understanding and still be so wrong boggles.

The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit. The third Person of the trinity. He is separate and distinct from God the Father and He is separate and distinct from Jesus Christ. And the Holy Spirit indwells the body of the believer. Not the consciousness. 1 Corinthians 6:19 ''Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? Jesus Christ asked the Father to send the Holy Spirit.

John 14:16 ''And I will ask the Father, and He will send another helper, that He may be with you forever; [17] that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you.

The Holy Spirit is God's consciousness (God is more than His consciousness . . . just as we are more than ours.) Jesus plainly tells us that God the Father "showed Him" everything and "more than this He showed Him." Why would God the Father have to show Himself ANYTHING? Jesus had a HUMAN consciousness that had to develop . . . just as ours do. He had the advantage of God as His Father with Him to help . . . but as a HUMAN Jesus had to achieve the perfect "resonance" with God's consciousness. Perfect resonance results in IDENTITY. Once Jesus achieved this . . . there was no difference between Jesus and God . . . (even though He was in a Human body with a Human consciousness).Otherwise there would have been no point to God saying "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased." What would He be pleased about . . . that He was Himself? No . . . He was pleased that Jesus successfully elevated HIS FULLY HUMAN consciousness to become IDENTICAL with God . . . i.e., have the Holy Spirit within His Human Body (Temple). This was Jesus' mission . . to produce God's consciousness in a human consciousness. The baptism that remained for Jesus to be baptised with was . . . death. Upon His death His human consciousness would be reborn as Spirit (Holy Spirit) still in human form . . . but now available to ALL human consciousnesses.

Now that we have His Holy Spirit available to us in our consciousnesses . . . we can try to achieve what Jesus did. We will undoubtedly fail . . . but if we achieve partial resonance with Jesus' perfection (called harmonics) in "love of God and each other" it will be good enough.

[Mike555]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

OH the irony!!! Decree schmecree . . . God decreed we have Dominion and free will within this material world with all His laws and constraints on it, period. Everything else is up to us. All your paradoxical human inventions of Omni-this, omni-that . . . are just that . . . human creations in ignorance to make sure God is sufficiently "Godly" to qualify as God!

You reject the essence of God. You deny His Omnipresence, His Omniscience, His Omnipotence, and no doubt, His other attributes. You walk in ignorance. It is you who are primitive. There is nothing new under the sun. Your beliefs are cosmic doctrines introduced into the world by Satan, and you have fallen hook, line, and sinker for those cosmic lies.

Go back to your teachers and ask them to tell you what the difference is between "believe in" and "believe on" using the original language connotations. Of course . . . they may not know since they taught you this nonsense.

I have just told you what it means to believe in Christ. That you can't understand it is no surprise. As I said. You are primitive.

To believe in Christ means to place your trust in Christ for salvation. It means to place you confidence in Christ to save you. a person is saved from the very moment he places his faith in Christ for salvation. Eternal salvation is an event that takes place in a moment of time. It is not a life long process. The spiritual life after salvation is completely different from the moment of salvation.

ANYTHING more intelligently discerned with real knowledge and understanding . . . instead of primitive ignorance . . . would seem "New Age." What took the form of a man? How did it come into the world?

I told you. God came into the world And you want to call Him a 'what'?

(Think "consciousness") Nevermind . . . magic! . . . right? He is the unique HUMAN consciousness of the Universe . . . which is what enables Him to save the rest of us HUMAN consciousnesses and provide the connection to God's consciousness. How you can be so close to understanding and still be so wrong boggles.The Holy Spirit is God's consciousness

You couldn't be further from the truth. It was the Atoning work of Christ on the Cross that provided the means of salvation. It is by believing in Christ that a person receives the benefits of what Christ did on the Cross.

The Holy Spirit is not God's consciousness. The Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Trinity. He is a Person, distinct from both the Father and the Son. They are co-equal and co-eternal. They all have the same essence in equal measure.

If you do not believe in the trinity, then you belong to a cult. And it is obvious from your beliefs that you are cultish. Your beliefs are not Christian!!!

(God is more than His consciousness . . . just as we are more than ours.) Jesus plainly tells us that God the Father "showed Him" everything and "more than this He showed Him." Why would God the Father have to show Himself ANYTHING? Jesus had a HUMAN consciousness that had to develop . . . just as ours do. He had the advantage of God as His Father with Him to help . . . but as a HUMAN Jesus had to achieve the perfect "resonance" with God's consciousness. Perfect resonance results in IDENTITY. Once Jesus achieved this . . . there was no difference between Jesus and God . . . (even though He was in a Human body with a Human consciousness).Otherwise there would have been no point to God saying "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased." What would He be pleased about . . . that He was Himself? No . . . He was pleased that Jesus successfully elevated HIS FULLY HUMAN consciousness to become IDENTICAL with God . . . i.e., have the Holy Spirit within His Human Body (Temple). This was Jesus' mission . . to produce God's consciousness in a human consciousness. The baptism that remained for Jesus to be baptised with was . . . death. Upon His death His human consciousness would be reborn as Spirit (Holy Spirit) still in human form . . . but now available to ALL human consciousnesses.

Now that we have His Holy Spirit available to us in our consciousnesses . . . we can try to achieve what Jesus did. We will undoubtedly fail . . . but if we achieve partial resonance with Jesus' perfection (called harmonics) in "love of God and each other" it will be good enough.

You are not in the truth. You reject orthodox Christian doctrine in favor of crap.

Jesus' mission was to die for the sins of the world.

And again, Jesus was fully God from the moment he came into the world. His humanity had to grow and learn, but He was fully God from eternity past.

The Father was pleased with Jesus because He was without sin. He was perfect in his humanity. He was qualifed to begin His public ministry.

Jesus' humanity is separate and distinct from His deity.

And again, and I have already given Scripture for it, God the Holy Spirit indwells the body of the believer. Not his consciousness.

Your use of the words resonance and harmonics onfirm that you are a new ager. These beliefs of yours are from Satan. Not from God.

You have in fact, called God evil. Following are your very words...


Here is my statement...
Quote:
Those who set themselves against the truth are condemned By the truth.

The god you have chosen to worship is not the God of truth, the God of the Bible, but rather, the god you worship is a Satanic new age counterfeit.

To which you replied...

''The God of the Bible you worship is evil and you would proclaim Him Good . . . the God of Jesus is Good and you would proclaim Him evil. Hmmmm . . . who is it that uses deception to change good into evil and evil into good???? Could it be . . . SATAN!!''


A fair question to you fundamentalists Post #265

In rejecting the Bible, you reject God.


Readers can check out your past posts in order to see that what you believe is not Biblical.

This is my final comment to you.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Mike555

You reject the essence of God. You deny His Omnipresence, His Omniscience, His Omnipotence, and no doubt, His other attributes. You walk in ignorance. It is you who are primitive. There is nothing new under the sun. Your beliefs are cosmic doctrines introduced into the world by Satan, and you have fallen hook, line, and sinker for those cosmic lies.

Nonsense. I reject nothing about God . . . you reject His TRUE NATURE for primitive fears and ignorance born of the early "training wheel" concepts of obedience and sacrifice necessary for the schoolmaster to train us to control our sinful natures. I reject your false God with all the attributes of Satan..

I have just told you what it means to believe in Christ. That you can't understand it is no surprise. As I said. You are primitive.

To believe in Christ means to place your trust in Christ for salvation. It means to place you confidence in Christ to save you. a person is saved from the very moment he places his faith in Christ for salvation. Eternal salvation is an event that takes place in a moment of time. It is not a life long process. The spiritual life after salvation is completely different from the moment of salvation.

If there is no inner change in your consciousness and behavior (believe on). . . your professed belief (belief in) is a sounding brass.

The Holy Spirit is not God's consciousness. The Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Trinity. He is a Person, distinct from both the Father and the Son. They are co-equal and co-eternal. They all have the same essence in equal measure.

The essence that is shared is God's consciousness. They are three in one because they are in three different forms (God as everything, Jesus as a human, and the Holy Spirit as just God's consciousness)

If you do not believe in the trinity, then you belong to a cult. And it is obvious from your beliefs that you are cultish. Your beliefs are not Christian!!!

I believe in the trinity . . . just not your ignorant and absurd version of it that makes no sense whatsoever. What you believe does not make you Christian . . . Who you emulate and follow does. I follow Christ and His commands to "love God and each other." THAT is what defines a Christian. You are a Biblean or a Churchian because that is what you idolize and follow . . . no matter how primitive or absurd it is. The bible is INSPIRED . . . NOT DICTATED . . . and those inspirations were INTERPRETED by ignorant primitives easy to deceive by Satan. Jesus is the Living Word of God, He is immune to satanic deception and He is with us. He abides in us as His Holy Spirit guiding and comforting us with what God has "written in our hearts" . . . not "written in ink."

Jesus' mission was to die for the sins of the world.

And again, Jesus was fully God from the moment he came into the world. His humanity had to grow and learn, but He was fully God from eternity past.

Then explain this. Jesus plainly tells us that God the Father "showed Him" everything and "more than this He showed Him." Why would God the Father have to show Himself ANYTHING? Jesus had a HUMAN consciousness that had to develop . . . just as ours do.

The Father was pleased with Jesus because He was without sin. He was perfect in his humanity. He was qualifed to begin His public ministry.

How could He not be? He was God. Of what value is that? He had the advantage of God as His Father with Him to help. It was as a HUMAN that Jesus had to achieve the perfect "resonance"(IDENTITY) with God's consciousness. Perfect resonance results in IDENTITY. Once Jesus achieved this . . . there was no difference between Jesus and God (They were ONE . . . even though He was in a Human body with a Human consciousness).God was pleased that Jesus successfully elevated HIS FULLY HUMAN consciousness to become IDENTICAL with God . . . i.e., have the Holy Spirit (God's consciousness) within His Human Body (Temple) . . . just as He was to give ALL of us after His death and rebirth as Spirit (Holy Spirit) in human consciousness form. His sacrifice gave us the same benefit of the Holy Spirit as guide and comforter as He had from God the Father.

Jesus' humanity is separate and distinct from His deity.

And again, and I have already given Scripture for it, God the Holy Spirit indwells the body of the believer. Not his consciousness.

Consciousness is ALL that defines ANY of us. Our bodies are containment vessels (Temples) for our consciousnesses. Where else in the body do you think the Holy Spirit indwells as Spirit? The lack of thought, intellectual rigor and knowledge displayed by your interpretations reveals significant errors in understanding God. You have started with the primitive dictator God of fear and punishment in the OT and then twisted the NT scripture and understanding to fit.

Your use of the words resonance and harmonics onfirm that you are a new ager. These beliefs of yours are from Satan. Not from God.

Your ignorance of the vibratory nature of our reality and everything in it and the relevance of resonance, dissonance and similar notions is proof you remain deceived by the satanic corruptions from the veil of ignorance over the OT writings.

You have in fact, called God evil. Following are your very words...

I have called YOUR DESCRIPTIONS of the God YOU believe in evil . . . get it right and stop trying to twist my words to promote your hateful doctrine and label me a non-Christian. It is YOU who DENY the Christian example and message of love in favor of the heinous OT descriptions of that primitive God you believe in.

In rejecting the Bible, you reject God.

In rejecting Christ's message and example of God's pure love . . . you reject God. Your God is the letters "written in ink" . . . NOT the Living Word of God Jesus Christ.

[ahigherway]

Originally Posted by Mike555

The moment a person understands the issue in salvation and makes a decision to receive Christ as Savior, he is eternally saved regardless of how he lives his life after being saved. As a result of being saved he SHOULD live his life as unto the Lord. But whether he does or not has no bearing on his eternal security.

Highly, highly, highly, highly DIS-agree.

Jesus rebuked the religious for a reason, and that reason was their (lack of righteous) fruits. The Kingdom of God will be TAKEN FROM YOU and given to a nation BRINGING FORTH THE FRUITS THEREOF.

See also: Rich man/Lazarus story, and the sheep/goats deal. They were condemned based on their ACTIONS.

Blessings,
brian