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Old 07-03-2010, 10:55 PM
 
20,338 posts, read 15,721,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
WHY are there consequences??? Posting here more and more resembles talking to a wall. At least the wailing wall is not plagued by any expectation of intelligent response.

Because eternal and infinite God in His absolute and uncompromising righteousness demands a penalty that man cannot pay, for an offense against His holiness. Only Jesus Christ who is God who came in the form of man could pay that penalty. All who refuse to come to God through Christ are not covered by the work of Christ on the Cross and therefore stand and fall, on their own righteousness before God. And God must reject man's righteousness. Those who reject Christ cannot pay the penalty that God demands, and must therefore remain under eternal condemnation.



Acts 16:31 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved...'

John 3:16 'For God so loved the world that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
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Old 07-03-2010, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,390,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Because eternal and infinite God in His absolute and uncompromising righteousness demands a penalty that man cannot pay, for an offense against His holiness.
That penalty would be death, and we will ALL be resurrected. Why did Paul HOPE for the resurrection of the just and the UNJUST?
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
That penalty would be death, and we will ALL be resurrected. Why did Paul HOPE for the resurrection of the just and the UNJUST?
The penalty is spiritural death, which is separation from God. Loss of relationship with God, and then physical death.

Gen 2:17 But from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it dying (Spiritually) you shall die (Physically).

Resource concerning the phrase, dying you shall die.

Genesis 2:17



Adam died spiritually the moment he ate from the tree. That is why he tried to hide from God after he ate the fruit (Gen 3:8-10). His relationship with God had been broken. He also began to die physically and finally did many hundreds of years later as a result.

As a result, all members of the human race are born physically alive but spiritually dead-no relationship with God. Those who die physically having rejected Christ as Savior remain spiritually dead for all eternity.

All unbelievers will be resurrected out of Hades into bodies that will then be thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity. That is the Second death-eternal separation from God in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14-15).

Daniel 12:3 ''And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life (believers), but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt (unbelievers who will undergo disgrace and everlasting contempt in the lake of fire).

John 5:28 ''Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs shall hear His voice, [29] and shall come forth; those who did the good (those who received Jesus as Savior) to a resurrection of life, those who commited the evil (those who rejected Christ and therefore relied on their own human righteousness) to a resurrection of judgment. That judgment is the Great White throne judgment of Revelation 20:11-15.

The contrast between those who are resurrected to everlasting life, and those who are resurrected to everlasting disgrace and contempt is clear. The honest person will see that, as well as the connection with Revelation 20:11-15.
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:16 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Mike, how come Paul HOPED for a resurrection of the just and the UNJUST?
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
how come Paul HOPED for a resurrection of the just and the UNJUST?
It wasn't that he hoped for the resurrection and JUDGEMENT of the unjust, in that they both coincided at exactly the same time, and was one event, and in that event, he, as an Israelite, was to be justified for his faith and receive his longed for incorruptible body.
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:41 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
It wasn't that he hoped for the resurrection and JUDGEMENT of the unjust, in that they both coincided at exactly the same time, and was one event, and in that event, he, as an Israelite, was to be justified for his faith and receive his longed for incorruptible body.

Aye, aye, aye.

Sigh.
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Old 07-04-2010, 03:23 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Aye, aye, aye.

Sigh.
1 Corinthians 4:3-5 (NKJV) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 For I know nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God.

In verse 5, Paul tells them not to judge people's motives. We can't see their heart, we don't know why they do what they do. What does Paul mean by, "Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts"?

It means that Christ's coming in judgement on apostate Israel, False Prophet, Anti Christ, beast or what have you, will clearly divide the apostate Jews and the OC system they are under, once and for all, from the NC system, and therefore show decisively who the true Israel is -- thereby clearly showing who the true Sons of God were. The thrust of this passage is that he didn't want the Corinthians to get proud and judgmental, but rather to let God expose the true hearts at the proper time. Justification was not complete for Israel....and Paul...was of that branch.

At the Marriage Rev 17; Eph 3-5, the Parousia 1 Cor 15, 1 Thess 4, 2 Thess 2, among others.... the fulness of the Gentiles Luke 21 and Rom 11, etc, is when the Lord comes, and it is then, when the Gentile and Faithful and True to God, the Law and the Prophets Israel church, unite as one city, the New Jerusalem, the Heavenly New Man and Creation.
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Old 07-04-2010, 03:07 PM
 
37,650 posts, read 25,348,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Because eternal and infinite God in His absolute and uncompromising righteousness demands a penalty that man cannot pay, for an offense against His holiness.
Think about what you are saying here (I know that would be a novel idea). Only weak and egotistical human beings are so motivated. Why on earth would our God . . . Creator of ALL that is and created AS He willed it . . . need a punishment for ANYTHING He created us to do??? What does this punishment DO FOR God??? Do you REALLY believe our efforts of ANY kind can have a negative or deleterious impact on God in ANY WAY shape or form???? Do you believe our punishment could in ANY WAY please or aid God??? Please explain this silliness.
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:36 PM
 
20,338 posts, read 15,721,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Think about what you are saying here (I know that would be a novel idea). Only weak and egotistical human beings are so motivated. Why on earth would our God . . . Creator of ALL that is and created AS He willed it . . . need a punishment for ANYTHING He created us to do??? What does this punishment DO FOR God??? Do you REALLY believe our efforts of ANY kind can have a negative or deleterious impact on God in ANY WAY shape or form???? Do you believe our punishment could in ANY WAY please or aid God??? Please explain this silliness.

There is no point in saying again what has been said over and over again here and in other threads. You are offended by what the Bible says about the reality of eternal condemnation in the lake of fire for all unbelievers and will not believe what God Himself has said. Instead, you have adopted cultish beliefs in preference to the truth.. You have set yourself against the truth. I will not waste my time arguing with you. Argue against the following.

John 3:36; Rev:20:11-15; Matthew 25:46; Matthew 10:28; John 8:24
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:50 PM
 
37,650 posts, read 25,348,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
There is no point in saying again what has been said over and over again here and in other threads. You are offended by what the Bible says about the reality of eternal condemnation in the lake of fire for all unbelievers and will not believe what God Himself has said. Instead, you have adopted cultish beliefs in preference to the truth.. You have set yourself against the truth. I will not waste my time arguing with you. Argue against the following.

John 3:36; Rev:20:11-15; Matthew 25:46; Matthew 10:28; John 8:24
Jesus IS The Truth . . . I follow Jesus. You are in a cult of man made biblical nonsense. I figured you would not and could not think for yourself and answer the questions about the absurd "precepts and doctrines of men" that you have been indoctrinated with. Well . . . it never hurts to try. The willful ignorance and blind acceptance of completely irrational positions is fascinating . . . but extremely frustrating.
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