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Old 11-18-2010, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Canada
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Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776
I always find it interesting when people use 2 Th 2:10 ... I honestly think that many people do not really even understand this verse.

What is "the love of the truth" ... ?

Well the question is who is "the truth"?

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


The love of the truth is the love of Christ. It is the love which Christ demonstrated when he walked among us ... The love which he taught, which is the love of ones neighbor as one self, as well as the love of ones enemies. This is the very same love which is described by Paul in 1 Corinthians 13:4 ...

So we see that those to whom God sends great delusion are those who do not have this love in their hearts, but only provide lip service to Christ. Those who are in fact the wicked servants that Christ described ...

So lets see how Christ described the wicked servants ...


Mat 18:23-32
Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

And ...

Luk 19:12-27
He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities. And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow. And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury? And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds. (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.) For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

So the wicked servants are people who, though they have been forgiven their sins and debt, refuse to forgive others their debts, and seek their condemnation and judgment. Also the wicked servants believe God to be an Austere man or being and fear him because of it. The word Austere in the Greek is austēros ...


austēros -
1) of mind and manners: harsh, rough, rigid

Main Entry: aus·tere
Pronunciation: \ȯ-ˈstir also -ˈster\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin austerus, from Greek austēros harsh, severe; akin to Greek hauos dry — more at sere
Date: 14th century
1 a : stern and cold in appearance or manner b : somber, grave <an austere critic>
2 : morally strict : ascetic
3 : markedly simple or unadorned <an austere office> <an austere style of writing>
4 : giving little or no scope for pleasure <austere diets>
5 of a wine : having the flavor of acid or tannin predominant over fruit flavors usually indicating a capacity for aging


The wicked servants will not forgive others, but condemn others and judge others even though they have been forgiven. And they live in fear of God as an angry and rough, or cold and strict dictator. They believe God is this way and so they are themselves this way, cold and strict, harsh and stern, judgmental and ruling/living in condemnation over the world.

In no way are the wicked servants described as being too loving, or too forgiving of others, or believing that God is too kind or loving towards humanity. In no way are the wicked servant described as believing that God will have all people to be saved, and is in fact the savior of all people, as the scritpures plainly state. In fact the wicked servants are by the description of Christ, the very opposite ...

Now it is important to note that Christ specifically stated that God was "kind to the unthankful and the evil", but these people do not really believe that. They believe god is austere and will condemn the "unthankful and the evil" for ever, which of course is infinitely opposite of being kind to them ...

Of course this is a picture of the Pharisees in Christs time, who believed themselves elect and saved, but all others damned and stood in hypocritical judgment over all others. It is so interesting to note that the pharisees, like modern day hell fire and brimstone fundamentalist Christians, believed that most people on earth would be condemned by God to everlasting torment after they died.


Josephus wrote concerning the pharisees that ...

Now when Christ spoke to the pharisees about judgment, he never once used any one of the phrases they used when referring to their doctrine of Eternal torment. According to Jospehus and Philo, the words that the pharisees used were "thanaton athanaton","eirgmon aidion","aidion timorion","thanaton ateleuteton", but Christ never used these phrases to describe judgment, neither are they found anywhere in the new or old testament. Instead Christ used "aionion kolasin" ...

I digress ...

I contend that it is in fact the doctrine of Eternal Torment that is the "great delusion" which God sent. And it is the leaven of the pharisees which Christ did refer to ... This doctrine is preferred by people like the pharisees because it strengthens their own elitist and self righteous view of their personal existence over most others in the world around them. It also quenches their thirst for revenge against their enemies, and supports their agendas for power and domination of others they would seek to put under themselves and rule over. Those who would stand between God and mankind. And it has has been proven throughout the past 1700 years that the doctrine leads to war, mass-murder, religious and ethnic cleansing and genocide, torture, etc ...
Selah ...






Hi Iron, have not been around for awhile and just stopped in to read a little today.

Glad I did

great post.
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Old 11-18-2010, 02:02 PM
 
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Well ... Thank you all for your support!


I also wanted to add that the wicked servants are also referred to in other passages, especially the parables of the the Prodigal son, and the parable of the workers in the field.

In the prodigal son parable the son who never left and was angry that the prodigal son was allowed to return and that his father celebrated his return and was jealous was i believe also another example of the wicked servants.

As well as the workmen who were angry and jealous about the late comers being paid the same amount as they were even though they had been working in the field all day while those who came last hardly did anything at all.

In both Parables the wicked servants idea of justice and fairness is in opposition to the justice and fairness that is expressed by Christ in those parables.

One thing is for sure, the wicked servants are never said to be too compassionate or too generous or too merciful etc. ...

Taken altogether, it is so obvious who the wicked servants represent, they draw close to god only with their mouths, but in their hearts they are far from him.

They will be allotted their portion with the unbelievers, and will be saved as passing through the fire.



Peace ...
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:12 PM
 
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Laborers in the Vineyard received a day's wage, but many still grumbled.
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Old 11-19-2010, 06:27 AM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Laborers in the Vineyard received a day's wage, but many still grumbled.
Because it's not fair thar we old school believers who worked so hard for years on believing the way we do, only to find out today,that those that came late in the day to work, are getting the same wage as us, and lets be fair they never really earned it like we did. Is it any wonder we are upset about it and complain bitterly ?

Last edited by pcamps; 11-19-2010 at 07:03 AM..
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Old 11-19-2010, 01:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Because it's not fair thar we old school believers who worked so hard for years on believing the way we do, only to find out today,that those that came late in the day to work, are getting the same wage as us, and lets be fair they never really earned it like we did. Is it any wonder we are upset about it and complain bitterly ?
You may remember Jesus telling a parable (in Mat 18:23) of the man who owed his master ten thousand talents – not nearly as much as we owed God. This man was forgiven his debt – just as we have been forgiven. But the same man who was forgiven so much would not forgive his co-worker who owed him an hundred pence, a small percentage of what he had been forgiven! Jesus’ verdict was that because the first servant would not forgive his friend, he would be held accountable to pay his debt also. So the options are clear; either we must forgive others or we will be held liable for our debts.

Peace!
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Old 11-19-2010, 01:49 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
You may remember Jesus telling a parable (in Mat 18:23) of the man who owed his master ten thousand talents – not nearly as much as we owed God. This man was forgiven his debt – just as we have been forgiven. But the same man who was forgiven so much would not forgive his co-worker who owed him an hundred pence, a small percentage of what he had been forgiven! Jesus’ verdict was that because the first servant would not forgive his friend, he would be held accountable to pay his debt also. So the options are clear; either we must forgive others or we will be held liable for our debts.

Peace!
Hi ans did you understand what i was saying in my post ? .Those coming late in the day are those who never broke sweat and what they received really wasn't a wage but a gift,i know some will gnash their teeth at that comment,but when all is said and done there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation , yet we are told indirectly that it is earnt,by, i repented, i believed,i chose God and so on , and those saying this are the ones who were there first thing in the morning and worked throughout the whole day.The prodigal son's brother had a similar problem to these boys working in the vineyard.

I know someone who is wealthy who employs a guy and pays him extremely well ,this guy has a cushy job and does not have to work hard at all for his wages,his employer actually pays him is full wage whether he does 30 or 40 hours a week and often gives him bonus's,the employer is also very very grateful and appreciative of the little he does ,the employee's daughter also babysits for the wealthy guy, and she gets paid the same hourly rate that her Father does , and he complains bitterly about it. Is the wealthy guy unjust or unfair ?.

Last edited by pcamps; 11-19-2010 at 01:58 PM..
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Old 11-19-2010, 02:18 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 4,417,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Hi ans did you understand what i was saying in my post ? .Those coming late in the day are those who never broke sweat and what they received really wasn't a wage but a gift,i know some will gnash their teeth at that comment,but when all is said and done there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation , yet we are told indirectly that it is earnt,by, i repented, i believed,i chose God and so on , and those saying this are the ones who were there first thing in the morning and worked throughout the whole day.The prodigal son's brother had a similar problem to these boys working in the vineyard.

I know someone who is wealthy who employs a guy and pays him extremely well ,this guy has a cushy job and does not have to work hard at all for his wages,his employer actually pays him is full wage whether he does 30 or 40 hours a week and often gives him bonus's,the employer is also very very grateful and appreciative of the little he does ,the employee's daughter also babysits for the wealthy guy, and she gets paid the same hourly rate that her Father does , and he complains bitterly about it. Is the wealthy guy unjust or unfair ?.
I certainly do Paul.
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Old 11-19-2010, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Mike555....you are absolutely right...the Restoration of all things is the restoration of God's people, Israel.
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Old 11-19-2010, 04:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Mike555....you are absolutely right...the Restoration of all things is the restoration of God's people, Israel.
This raises a serious question:

Have many become, Israelites, enslaved again by the throne of the Egyptians?
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Old 11-19-2010, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
This raises a serious question:

Have many become, Israelites, enslaved again by the throne of the Egyptians?
What does this have to do with Acts 3 may I ask?
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