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Old 06-17-2010, 10:57 AM
 
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Believers in a group that walk in the spirit are still manifesting their cooperative actions from within each of them.
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:13 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post

Which of these does not mean "all?"



For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.

Ephesians 1:9-10: And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it------->>>>>> the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him.


Revelation 5:13: And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."

It was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself,
having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.


Romans 11:32: For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
Amen!! ALL means ALL, and "every created thing" means every created thing! This is so very simple.
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:48 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,318,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Luke 17:20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, ''The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; [21] nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'there it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.''

As I said in the first post, Jesus did NOT say that the kingdom of God is 'within you.'
Jesus most certainly said what you're denying. What Jesus taught merely contradicts your dogma. You need to revisit your doctrines my friend.
Quote:
That is an improper translation.
Have you considered that like the Pharisees you are looking "here" and "there" for something that is only found "within"? It might be that Jesus is speaking directly to you regarding this issue. You need to listen to what Jesus said and take it to heart.
Quote:
Again, He was speaking to unbelieving Pharisees.
Jesus was speaking to you my friend. Belief or faith does not create the Kingdom "within" but rather "sees" the Kingdom there. Faith and belief are what allow this Kingdom to be "seen" within. John told us that Christ enlightens everyone that enters the world.

Joh 1:9 He was the true Light, which doth enlighten every man, coming to the world;

The fact that someone (a Pharisee or an ETer for example) is not aware of this enlightenment does not mean it is not present "within" them. They just don't "see" it. Until born of the Spirit, they are spiritually blind to it. For example (this analogy may or may not work...LOL): The sun, moon and stars are present whether a person with renal disease can visually "see" these objects in the sky or not, right? If we say that something is not "seen" we imply that it nevertheless does exist and is see-able with the right aid or equipment. Distant galaxies that are not seen with the naked eye are still there, but they've just never been "seen" without the aid of very powerful telescopes. So it is with the Kingdom. It isn't that the Kingdom is not "within", but rather it is not "seen" as being there. The Pharisee (as well as the ETer) must first be born from above to "see" this Kingdom that exists "within" them. Jesus would not instruct someone to "see" something, or admonish one for not seeing it, if it did not exist to begin with, right?

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'

Those that believe the Gospel and are born of the Spirit "see" and experience this Kingdom "within" them.
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:55 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,581,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I would have to say that if the bible meant ALL would be saved it would have said it in no uncertain terms...it says that one must believe and have faith to be saved in no uncertain terms...why would it be so mysterious on the matter of salvation of all?...
Spiritually revealed, it tells us exactly how His plan will be revealed - but along the way, there are thousands of places where things are translated literally instead of spiritually, and carnally instead of spiritually.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
I do not know if this claim is true, see here
That's the meaning alright. Inside, within. Here is another take on it from Robinson's Word Study Lexicon:

G1787

ἐντός
entós; adv. from en (G1722), in. Within. Used also as a prep. with the gen. (Luk_17:21, "the kingdom of God is within you," meaning it is located in your heart and affections, not external). With the neut. def. art., tó entós, the inside (Mat_23:26; Sept.: Psa_39:4; Psa_109:22).

The only people that will object to this are the ETer's (modern day Pharisees). They want the Kingdom all to themselves...LOL
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:08 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,713,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Jesus most certainly said what you're denying. What Jesus taught merely contradicts your dogma. You need to revisit your doctrines my friend.
Have you considered that like the Pharisees you are looking "here" and "there" for something that is only found "within"? It might be that Jesus is speaking directly to you regarding this issue. You need to listen to what Jesus said and take it to heart.
Jesus was speaking to you my friend. Belief or faith does not create the Kingdom "within" but rather "sees" the Kingdom there. Faith and belief are what allow this Kingdom to be "seen" within. John told us that Christ enlightens everyone that enters the world.

Joh 1:9 He was the true Light, which doth enlighten every man, coming to the world;

The fact that someone (a Pharisee or an ETer for example) is not aware of this enlightenment does not mean it is not present "within" them. They just don't "see" it. Until born of the Spirit, they are spiritually blind to it. For example (this analogy may or may not work...LOL): The sun, moon and stars are present whether a person with renal disease can visually "see" these objects in the sky or not, right? If we say that something is not "seen" we imply that it nevertheless does exist and is see-able with the right aid or equipment. Distant galaxies that are not seen with the naked eye are still there, but they've just never been "seen" without the aid of very powerful telescopes. So it is with the Kingdom. It isn't that the Kingdom is not "within", but rather it is not "seen" as being there. The Pharisee (as well as the ETer) must first be born from above to "see" this Kingdom that exists "within" them. Jesus would not instruct someone to "see" something, or admonish one for not seeing it, if it did not exist to begin with, right?

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'

Those that believe the Gospel and are born of the Spirit "see" and experience this Kingdom "within" them.


John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, ''Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.''

John 3:5 Jesus answered, ''Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


As I previously said...

Now with all the above having been said, that the coming of the kingdom is fulfilled with the coming of the Lord and a literal, physical, political kingdom, there is nevertheless a spiritual aspect to the kingdom.

In Matthew 12:28 Jesus states the following. ''But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

But that is not the ultimate fulfillment of the kingdom. That ultimate fulfillment awaits the Lord's return.

The kingdom of God is not within the believer. And the kingdom is not the church. The kingdom is never said to be within you. The kingdom is always spoken of in terms of being entered into. The believer in Christ has eternal life, and so he is spiritually in the kingdom of God. But he is not physically in the kingdom. The arrival of the kingdom on earth occurs with the arrival of the king. Jesus Christ at His second coming. And as already stated elsewhere, the church returns with Christ at His second coming when He sets up His kingdom on earth.

Which also brings up the aspect that when the believer dies, he is immediately in the presence of the Lord in Heaven. And also, before the tribulation begins, the church will have been raptured into Heaven.

The word of God must be rightly divided. The church and the kingdom are two different things. The Scriptures are clear in the distinction.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:20 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,318,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, ''Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.''

John 3:5 Jesus answered, ''Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
The term "enter into" does not change the location of the Kingdom being "within". You "enter into" the Kingdom by being born from above through faith. However, the Kingdom is still "within". We are talking about spiritual things here, right?.

Why are you having a problem with the Kingdom being "within"?
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:35 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,318,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The kingdom of God is not within the believer.
Well, let's consider the following. I'll use the NASB here:

Rom 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Do righteousness, peace and joy (manifestations of the Kingdom) emerge from "within" or outside the believer?
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:39 PM
 
Location: RV Park
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Among: Pentecostal realm

Within: Tabernacle realm < (where we need to be)
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:47 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,713,584 times
Reputation: 7477
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Jesus most certainly said what you're denying. What Jesus taught merely contradicts your dogma. You need to revisit your doctrines my friend.
Have you considered that like the Pharisees you are looking "here" and "there" for something that is only found "within"? It might be that Jesus is speaking directly to you regarding this issue. You need to listen to what Jesus said and take it to heart.
Jesus was speaking to you my friend. Belief or faith does not create the Kingdom "within" but rather "sees" the Kingdom there. Faith and belief are what allow this Kingdom to be "seen" within. John told us that Christ enlightens everyone that enters the world.

Joh 1:9 He was the true Light, which doth enlighten every man, coming to the world;

The fact that someone (a Pharisee or an ETer for example) is not aware of this enlightenment does not mean it is not present "within" them. They just don't "see" it. Until born of the Spirit, they are spiritually blind to it. For example (this analogy may or may not work...LOL): The sun, moon and stars are present whether a person with renal disease can visually "see" these objects in the sky or not, right? If we say that something is not "seen" we imply that it nevertheless does exist and is see-able with the right aid or equipment. Distant galaxies that are not seen with the naked eye are still there, but they've just never been "seen" without the aid of very powerful telescopes. So it is with the Kingdom. It isn't that the Kingdom is not "within", but rather it is not "seen" as being there. The Pharisee (as well as the ETer) must first be born from above to "see" this Kingdom that exists "within" them. Jesus would not instruct someone to "see" something, or admonish one for not seeing it, if it did not exist to begin with, right?

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'

Those that believe the Gospel and are born of the Spirit "see" and experience this Kingdom "within" them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
The term "enter into" does not change the location of the Kingdom being "within". You "enter into" the Kingdom by being born from above through faith. However, the Kingdom is still "within". We are talking about spiritual things here, right?.

Why are you having a problem with the Kingdom being "within"?
The realitiy of the fact that all three Persons of the Godhead indwell the body of the church-age believer not withstanding, the Kingdom is not within. The reasons have all been explained before and need not be repeated here. Those who wish, may review my posts. #1, 11, 16, 23, and 36.

Also, these resources will be of help. They are actually two differents sections of one site...

Why Don't People Understand the Kingdom of God?

Is the Kingdom Within You? > The Gospel of the Kingdom of God

Those two links above are apparently connected with the United Church of God. I don't know anything about them, and I am not a member of that denomination, or any other denomination. I chose the links strictly for what they say about the kingdom of God.

Last edited by Mike555; 06-17-2010 at 01:13 PM..
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