U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-17-2010, 05:39 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,206,750 times
Reputation: 892

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Let me get this straight...you believe that this restoration is for all of creation...yet it is clear, that creation, the heaven and earth, is for Israel only, realized in the NT, for the Jew AND the Gentile.

Again, proof of your mindless eisigesis ...

Rom 8:22-24
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?


The Whole creation groans, and the whole creation including ourselves shall be set free into the glorious liberty of the sons of God. Not just israel, and not just those who are now believing, the whole creation, bar none.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-17-2010, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,292,342 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
How in the world do you think that i Believe he failed? I believe he was victorious throughout all creation. Your just acting like a 5 year old playing the im rubber your glue game. You are the one who believes sin has a greater victory than Christ in creation. Anyone reading our words can see it ...
You say He will, when He said He did, so you believe He failed.

Quote:
And it is obvious you are the one who eisigetes ... I find almost all of your beliefs to be completely mindless. In my opinion you are one of the most ill informed Christians i have ever met ... I believe you are even more confused than Mike, and that is saying allot. It appears to me that you are the epitome of one who is forever learning but are unable to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Attacking once again...I see....a common trait amongst your group.

Quote:
We will simply agree to disagree, on almost everything, other than perhaps the deity of Christ.
One of the only beliefs that saves you. Praise God.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2010, 05:45 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,206,750 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
You believe He failed.

1Ti 2:4
(kjv)Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

(esv)who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


So do you believe God will have or even desires that all people will be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth as the scriptures clearly testify? Yes or no?

Do you believe he will accomplish the salvation of all people? Yes or no?


If you do not believe he will accomplish his desire to save all, then you believe he is a failure. Period ...

I believe he will accomplish whatever pleases him, i believe he is successful in accomplishing his desire and will to save all people, you do not.

Thus i believe he is completely victorious, and you believe he is a failure ...



So be it ...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2010, 05:48 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,206,750 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
You say He will, when He said He did, so you believe He failed.



Attacking once again...I see....a common trait amongst your group.



One of the only beliefs that saves you. Praise God.

Belief does not save, God does. We only believe because we were given faith to begin with. Faith is a fruit of the spirit, something that you cannot have unless you are first born of the spirit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2010, 05:50 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,206,750 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Attacking once again...I see....a common trait amongst your group.

So your telling me that i am eisigeting is not attacking, while me telling you that i believe you are the one who eisigetes is? Whats good for the goose is good for the gander ... I am simply being honest with you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2010, 05:55 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,206,750 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
You say He will, when He said He did, so you believe He failed.

I believe that the restoration of all is an ongoing process, not that Christ failed to restore all. So long as evil exists, the complete restoration is yet to be fully accomplished. He did not fail, and he will not fail. Even Paul said the creation was groaning in his time after Christ had died and resurrected. And that even we who have the first fruits of the spirit yet wait in hope for the liberation of the whole creation. Of course you dont believe that the whole creation will be liberated. And you believe evil will exist for ever.

Christ was victorious once and for all after his resurrection and ascension, but it takes time for the effect to manifest completely throughout the creation which to this day still groans in anticipation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2010, 07:45 PM
 
20,323 posts, read 15,678,979 times
Reputation: 7436
I know full well that many people don't bother to read everything which the author of a particular thread has written in that thread before launching off into a tirade over something they object too. Nevertheless, I invite the readers of this thread to go back and read all my posts. The important ones anyway. Post's #1, 11, 16, 21, 23, 36, 40.

Acts 3:21 which talks about the restoration of all things is addressing the question that was put forth by the apostles in Acts 1:6. The question pertained to the restoration of the kingdom to Israel.

Now, at the end of the Millennium, God will create a new heavens and a new earth, but that is not in view in Acts 3:21. And the false teaching of Universalism is not in view in the passage.

That which is in view in Acts 3:21 with regard to the restoration of all things is the restoration of the kingdom to Israel.

Here are 4 passages from post #21 with regard to Israel's future restoration.

It is in the yet future kingdom age when the 'fortunes of Israel' will be restored.

Jer. 30:3 'For, behold, days are coming,' declares the LORD, 'when I will restore the fortunes of My people Israel and Judah.' The LORD says, ' I will bring them back to the land that I gave to their forefathers, and they shall possess it.' ''

Jer. 31:23 Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, ''Once again they will speak this word in the land of Judah and in its cities, when I restore their fortunes, 'The LORD bless you, O abode of righteousness, O holy hill!''

Jer. 33:7 'And I will restore the fortunes of Judah and the fortunes of Israel, and I will rebuild them as they were at first.

Eze. 39:25 Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, ''Now I shall restore the fortunes of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I shall be jealous for My holy name .

And it is this that the apostles had asked Jesus about, as recorded in Acts 1:6 '' ...Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?''

And it this restoration of the kingdom to Israel that Acts 3:21 is referring to.

Acts 3:21 ...whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

So, again. In Acts 3:21, the 'restoration of all things' has in view, the future restoration of Israel.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2010, 03:12 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,292,342 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
So your telling me that i am eisigeting is not attacking, while me telling you that i believe you are the one who eisigetes is? Whats good for the goose is good for the gander ... I am simply being honest with you.
Eisigeting?? Eisigetes??

Ironmaw, you had no clue what these words meant until it was presented to you, by me. Secondly, the words above don't exist.

Exegesis. Eisegesis. Exegetes. Exegete. That's it.

Regarding 1 Tim 2....you impose eisegesis. Has nothing to do with Divine decreed will of God. You are out of context. Your questions are meaningless in light of the scripture's themes in 1 Tim 2. Would you like me to present the rebuttal regarding this again, and dismantle it again?

Quote:
Christ was victorious once and for all after his resurrection and ascension, but it takes time for the effect to manifest completely throughout the creation which to this day still groans in anticipation.
Now we are getting somewhere as I meddled through your eisegesis.

Yes it did take time to manifest, but when that time is manifested and complete, who is restored.....who?????

Israel. They are His creation - Isa 51

Ironmaw, your interpretations are so skewed by your universal beliefs, that you completely lose sight of the overall foundation of the scriptures. Before you want to address Preterism vs whatever, this has nothing to do with it. It is clear, that at the close of the fulness of times, the restoration of creation, on;y those that believed are reconciled, and it is them, that is the NEW CREATION....not everybody.

And that restoration, has been completely resolved, for those in Christ.

It is finished.

Matt 9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.

Matt 2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

2 Cor 5:4 For we that are in [this] tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

2 Cor 5:18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

I don't know about you, but I am a new creation. The resurrection of Israel, restores them, but as for the Gentile church, they were already a new creation...nv Christos
The Marriage unites them both, as one body, one bride, one church, Israel.

It is your paradigm that has to convince 1.9 billion Christians, along with every one else, that you paradigm is the truth,
But from what I have seen and read, it cannot hold any weight to the general, foundational theme of the scriptures.........

The preservation of the saints.

Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2010, 10:51 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,206,750 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Eisigeting?? Eisigetes??

Ironmaw, you had no clue what these words meant until it was presented to you, by me. Secondly, the words above don't exist.

Exegesis. Eisegesis. Exegetes. Exegete. That's it.

Regarding 1 Tim 2....you impose eisegesis. Has nothing to do with Divine decreed will of God. You are out of context. Your questions are meaningless in light of the scripture's themes in 1 Tim 2. Would you like me to present the rebuttal regarding this again, and dismantle it again?



Now we are getting somewhere as I meddled through your eisegesis.

Yes it did take time to manifest, but when that time is manifested and complete, who is restored.....who?????

Israel. They are His creation - Isa 51

Ironmaw, your interpretations are so skewed by your universal beliefs, that you completely lose sight of the overall foundation of the scriptures. Before you want to address Preterism vs whatever, this has nothing to do with it. It is clear, that at the close of the fulness of times, the restoration of creation, on;y those that believed are reconciled, and it is them, that is the NEW CREATION....not everybody.

And that restoration, has been completely resolved, for those in Christ.

It is finished.

Matt 9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.

Matt 2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

2 Cor 5:4 For we that are in [this] tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

2 Cor 5:18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

I don't know about you, but I am a new creation. The resurrection of Israel, restores them, but as for the Gentile church, they were already a new creation...nv Christos
The Marriage unites them both, as one body, one bride, one church, Israel.

It is your paradigm that has to convince 1.9 billion Christians, along with every one else, that you paradigm is the truth,
But from what I have seen and read, it cannot hold any weight to the general, foundational theme of the scriptures.........

The preservation of the saints.

Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Ah ... Attacking my spelling errors now? Excuse me, eisegete or eisegeting ...

Sciotamicks i realize your arrogance is greater than most, but don't flatter yourself smart guy. But seeing that is the only leg you really have to stand on i understand.

In revelations Christ says that he makes all things new ... I know you believe all things means only some things, but that is your imposition on the scriptures as they clearly say Christ makes all things new and there is nothing you or anyone else can do to change that no matter how much you desire that most people be damned for ever ... The only thing damned forever is your false doctrine of hate ...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2010, 02:20 PM
 
37,587 posts, read 25,288,180 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Ah ... Attacking my spelling errors now? Excuse me, eisegete or eisegeting ...

Sciotamicks i realize your arrogance is greater than most, but don't flatter yourself smart guy. But seeing that is the only leg you really have to stand on i understand.
Relax, Iron . . . there is nothing smart about sciota . . . he is parrotting the "precepts and doctrines of men" who have a completely erroneous understanding of the nature of God (which means they are using the wrong CONTEXT and that makes their exegesis wrong)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top