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Old 06-16-2010, 01:38 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,572,297 times
Reputation: 1584

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Chris,

This is one of the saddest posts I've ever read. And it makes me angry as well to see how you have been abused with religion. I don't think you can ever find peace so long as you hang on to the false image of God that has been emblazoned into your mind by people who are, frankly, very unwell themselves. Fundamentalist Christianity is one of the most dangerous things in this world for a person's mental health. I think you should RUN away from that church and tell God you want to KNOW HIM. Tell God it is all up to him, that you are helpless and in bondage to Babylon. Your family's religion is much more toxic and filthy than any bondage you have to homosexual desires.
__________________________________________________ ___________
Here is something I read that might help you. It's about not KNOWING CHRIST AFTER THE FLESH:

2 Corinthians 5:16-17 (King James Version) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. (17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.



He is saying that we knew Him as a man, born as a Jew in the tribe of Judah, the son of Mary, but now after His crucifixion, death and resurrection, we no longer regard Him according to the natural man, but the spiritual man. He is no longer Jewish, born of the tribe of Judah, nor is He the son of Mary. We know Him now as the risen Lord, the King of Kings, the firstborn of many brethren, the Son of the living God.

Every man that is in Christ (verse 17) “is a new creature”. That is why Paul tells you, that we anymore (2 Corinthians 5:16), but the Greek word translated here as “new” is the word “kainos”. According to the Thayer’s Greek Definitions it means:

G2537 kainos
1) new
1a) as respects form
1a1) recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn
1b) as respects substance
1b1) of a new kind, unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of

The context here is clear. When a man has accepted Christ as His Lord and Savior, he is no longer considered after his natural birth, position, education, race, color or creed. He is now like Christ a son of God and seated with Him in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:8). You are and take your identity from Christ and conduct yourself as a son of God and a citizen of His Kingdom.

Galatians 3:28 (King James Version) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:10-11 (King James Version) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: (11) Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
The same therefore applies to our knowledge of Christ. It no longer matters that Christ was Jewish according to natural birth, nor where he was born, what tribe, what language or culture or indeed how he lived in the natural. We do not pursue Him according to natural knowledge, but spiritual understanding.

Consider the following scripture in this regard:

Philippians 3:3-10 (King James Version) For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. (4) Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: (5) Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; (6) Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. (7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. (8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, (9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: (10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

The apostle Paul here equates the flesh to his natural birth and disposition (verse 5 and 6) and then continues to say that he counts the things of the flesh, his birth, tribe, religion, understanding of the law and other natural pursuits as nothing compared to being in Christ. Read this scripture together with 2 Corinthians 5:16-17 and you will see that this is the same context in which we know Christ no longer after the flesh.

Paul cannot be referring to the crucified Christ in 2 Corinthians 5:16, because then he would be contradicting himself. The same apostle Paul wrote as follows:

1 Corinthians 2:2 (King James Version) For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1 Corinthians 11:23-26 (King James Version) For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: (24) And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. (25) After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. (26) For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

When misunderstanding we devalue and undermine the revelation of the power of the cross of Jesus Christ.

Galatians 6:14 (King James Version) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

To us He is and always will be the Lamb of God, the crucified Christ. That is how John saw Him in Revelations, as the Lamb that was slain. Because of His death on the cross, we are sons of God, members of His household and have been made the righteousness of God. We cannot separate His death on the cross from His resurrection. We always look to the cross as a testimony of what was done for us. We draw our strength from looking at Him on the cross, knowing that on the cross He paid the price and did a finished work. On the cross He became the curse, so that you and I can be free from the curse and receive the promise of the Spirit, become partakers with Him of the things of God (Galatians 3).







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Old 06-16-2010, 01:43 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,687,594 times
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Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest."

Only the Lord Jesus Christ can give you peace. Turn to Him and He will heal you. God bless you.
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Old 06-16-2010, 02:03 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,237,725 times
Reputation: 837
Red face Dear precious soul.....

My heart goes out to you precious one...but please...please listen to me...God hates sin...period. It doesn't matter what kind of sin it is...(and homosexuality is no worse or no less than any other sin) sin is sin is sin...and God hates ANY worker of iniquity...He says so in Scripture...I'm sure you know this already...He does not abide in sin...and the sinner does not know Him nor does He know the sinner...God says that anyone who claims to know Him and love Him and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him...you love the LORD...I know this by your words...you are so precious...I wish I could just hold you and love on you dear one...you need that so much...I truly do understand...and God Bless you for honoring your parents the way you do..and loving them so much the way you do ...despite their shortcomings...that is so precious in God's sight...forsaking and sacrificing the lusts of your flesh, because you know it is the right thing to do in the eyes of God...and this is all that truly matters...be steadfast...stand strong...and separate yourself from that particular church, and if you feel you need to be in a church "building"...find a different one.

It is time to find your own relationship with God...and I would advise that you seek His heart all by yourself...study the Bible and allow His Word to penetrate your heart and cleanse your soul...clearly and calmly...in peace...let Him speak to you...alone. You will grow and thrive in His presence.

Whatever you do...do not compromise your faith in God for the lusts of your flesh...please do not do that.

Your parents...they will have to understand (it may take time) that you will seek God alone...and truly do it dear one...seek His heart...He loves you and He does not want to lose you...no way.

I promise to keep you in my prayers...God Bless you and keep you in His loving care...

In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.
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Old 06-16-2010, 02:10 AM
 
365 posts, read 424,639 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
I was never molested as a child...and it offends me that you try to say that I was.
Firstly I never said you were molested. Moderator cut: edit

Moderator cut: flame

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

Last edited by Miss Blue; 06-16-2010 at 05:26 AM.. Reason: Please do not badger the op..He is not looking for an arguement
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Old 06-16-2010, 02:32 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,572,297 times
Reputation: 1584
Chris,

Just so you know, there are people here who are fundamentalists who would condemn your soul to hell for knowing you are homosexual. They have a litmus test for who they believe God loves. I'm just posting this to warn you that there are some here who would treat you about the same as you family and your church. On the other hand, there are Christians here who believe that God is love and his love does not depend on us being perfect or sinless. Beware of the leaven of the pharisee spirit - it is present here everyday.

Heartsong
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Old 06-16-2010, 02:35 AM
 
5,738 posts, read 4,585,628 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
I think the God of wrath idea has been drilled into you deeply and it can be hard to get past that. I'll just make a few observations which (hopefully) will be helpful.

1. Receiving acceptance from your family for appearing to be someone you aren't is dishonest and in the long run will not be helpful. Your spiritual choices are between you and God and is (frankly) no one else's business.

2. A 'cult like' Baptist denomination is probably the last place your spiritual life will flourish. Christians who obsess about homosexuality (when clearly the bible doesn't) generally have deep rooted issues.

3. Seek to know God for yourself - not for anyone else. A personal encounter is where it's at. An intimate and real knowledge of the one who made you and who understands every nuance of your being AND who loves you unconditionally will NEVER bring rejection or confusion to your heart.

4. Fear of hell or of the destructive wrath of God has no place in a child of God's heart. God's Spirit and your spirit have the same goals. Face all obstacles together as a team.

Of course - I can't really address your emotional ties with your family. I was/am terribly rejected by my dad which was/is a HORRIBLE experience but knowing my creator personally was a great turning point and I learned to live without craving that human acceptance.

I am straight and so can't relate to the gay part of your struggle except through empathy. I do know that God is FOR the rejected and oppressed - and that would include those rejected/oppressed through religious dogma.

Here's praying that you find the peace of God which passes understanding...
Dear bchris02,

Please read and re-read Firstborn888's post above. Please, brother.. let it sink into your soul and give you the peace you so truly DESERVE.
GOD LOVES YOU. He knew all about you, every hair on your head before you were even born. Think about that.
And again, please read the BEAUTIFUL post above.
Do NOT let others condemn you!
They have NO RIGHT!

Let God's arms envelop you and bring you peace.
If you need to talk in private, please direct message me.
I'm here for you, brother. As others are, as well.
with much love,
sparrow
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Old 06-16-2010, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 5,134,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
This is a very dark time in my life. Having last year come out of the closet as a gay man, I experienced endless mental torture from my family. In their church, homosexuality is the worst sin possible for mankind to commit, and they made sure I was aware of that almost every day by phone calls, text, email, or some other mention. But this isn't about homosexuality or trying to justify it. My family is very dear to me. I was raised in a strict Independent Fundamental Baptist church and when I was attending the church and following the rules, I was very close to my family. All of that changed when I came out gay and subsequently left the church. When most people in my shoes would disown their family in such a situation, I cannot bring myself to do it. My family means too much for me.

That said, upon a recent visit to them after not seeing them for a year, I went back into the closet and told them my homosexuality was just a phase and was now over it. In my heart, if being able to have a loving mom and dad means I must suppress my feelings towards other men, then so be it. Plus, the fact it was drilled into me every Sunday morning, night and Wednesday night for 22 years that homosexuality is at the top of God's list of abominations, much of my inner being believes that it is sinful and I will go to hell for living a homosexual lifestyle, whether I can change the feelings or not. So I have given that up.

While things were better for a little while, they have gotten much worse, almost as bad as it was when I told them I was gay. I missed church Sunday because I went to a local amusement park and was told that afternoon by my parents that I am headed for hell, they do not trust me at all, and they are ashamed of me. That same message was re-iterated to me on the phone tonight because I question that the earth might be older than 6,000 years. I get called a mocker and a scoffer by them. Truth is, as horrible as all this sounds, my parents do love me and these issues break their hearts because they really believe I will go to hell for them. The only way I can make them happy is to completely cut myself off from the world and find an old-fashioned, fundamental, Independent Baptist church and dedicate my entire life to God and the church. Once again, a big part of me sees this as the right thing to do. I feel like I am trying to justify sin in my life by posting this message.

That said, the other side of me has done research on religion and specifically the Independent Fundamental Baptist denomination and their cult-like beliefs. With them, its either you are with them or against them and there is no middle ground. I am not sure if the Bible is meant to be taken entirely literal or figuratively...though a figurative interpretation is damnable heresy in the church. I question why a God who hates homosexuals so much would allow me, son of an Independent Baptist preacher, to have homosexual tendencies. Through college and research my mind has been opened that I have difficult time believing whole-heartedly the earth is only 6,000 years old. Its getting very close to time I am going to have to face a decision I am dreading. I am either going to have to jump in the IFB cult wholeheartedly or disown my family entirely and live my own life. The religious side of me tells me the former will lead me to heaven while the latter will send me to hell.

One thing always taught to me growing up was that if you obey God He will bless you and if you do not obey you will be cursed. If I take the route of living my own life, I feel not only will I burn in hell, but I will have a life of sorrow and hardship as God pours out his wrath on me.

No matter which path I choose...I don't feel I will ever find peace. I can't turn to a more mainstream Christianity teaching God's love because my family will never accept that. Plus, I have a difficult time reconciling the notion of a loving God with the persona of God I grew up with: angry, vengeful, full of wrath, who is coming soon to destroy the world by fire and brimstone. I might as well go all out and be a gay atheist if I am going to go for a more liberal interpretation of Christianity. In fact, it would be easier to do. I wish I could become an atheist because I would have a much greater peace if there was no God than I do now knowing I am on the brink of God's wrath being unleashed on me, but I know in my heart God is real.

I know this has been a long post and I thank you for reading. I should probably seek counseling on this but I cannot afford it right now and I don't have job security. Any advice or further questions would be appreciated. I would like to find a solution that would be beneficial to both me and my family, but I cannot think of a way on my own that it could happen.
Homosexuality is not a sin. It was a false idea implanted into the minds of barbaric men who had no idea of who God is. The followers of those same men will tell you that it's still a sin today.

The first thing you should do is learn to love yourself the way you are. If you cannot do that, then you will be destroying your own soul. Big no no.

Secondly, you are a child of God first and formost. He sent you to your parents so that they could guide you through this life. You do not belong to them. You belong to God.

Third, Your soul has no sexual organs. When you pass on to the spirit world, you will still have the same soul with the same thoughts. If you are the female aspect of your homosexuality, you will still be the female aspect through your soul in the spirit world. The same if you are the male. The soul is the real you and it will never change. The material body is meaningless other than to protect your soul while you are here. Once it dies, you will still be the male or female soul that you were created with.

Fourth, Jesus pointed out that the whole world is your family. It matters not if they have the same blood or not. If your blood family cannot accept you than find others who do and be happy with that choice. Otherwise, you will live a miserable life while here and your soul will be the worse for those actions. Just be in the world without being of it and Love. Love yourself for who God created you to be and not what others want you to be. You only cheat yourself in the end if you cannot accept your true self.
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Old 06-16-2010, 06:03 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,111,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
If it makes any difference our "son" is trans. We still love and accept him/her.



brian
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Old 06-16-2010, 06:19 AM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,715,331 times
Reputation: 1351
Back home in the Caribbean we refer to something known as the 8-day wonder. After about a week, people often get caught back up in their REAL lives to be little concerned about your life as they simply become accustomed to whatever must be must be. It's a GREAT feeling to tell everyone to "kiss off," live your life as you see fit (within reason, responsibility and law) and let others worry about their own lives. You learn real fast that EVERY single soul on this planet have their own issues to deal with and minding your business is just a cheap "drug" to take their minds off of their own crap.

You still seem young and still at that stage where you are living to please family and tat is understandable. Get to about 40 and you will find out garbage about all kinds of people who, along the way, were pointing fingers and condemning. It is then you will have that eureka moment where you asks, "now why the hell was I paying attention to these people again???" Meanwhile you will be regretting all those productive years you robbed yourself trying to impress others. Save yourself the trouble son. Your happiness is NOT what others dictate to you it should be!
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:15 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,685,493 times
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Bchris02, I understand what you are going through, for a period of time I suppressed what I really believed so that my Mom could treat me in a loving manner, however, eventually you will realize that your mothers love is not based on the truth.

I am not saying you are wrong for what you are doing. I am saying that the Christian doctrines against homsexuality are wrong and a person can only live a lie for so long before they have more mental issue to deal with far beyond the need for a relationship with your parents.

I love my parents, and in their world they love me, but my theological stance to them means I am going to fry in hell forever. But I will not live a lie as there will be no peace or joy in that.
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