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Old 06-16-2010, 08:13 PM
 
957 posts, read 716,323 times
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Hang in there buddy. Don't ever EVER doubt God's love for you. You mean the world to Him. He will never forsake you.
God bless you. You are in my prayers.
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Seattle Area
3,455 posts, read 6,171,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
True, this is the hardest part. Right now, I am not sure going through this emotional torment of "losing" my family is worth it to live a lifestyle that I am not sure will even bring me happiness. Plus it hurts me knowing how much it would hurt them.

In my past year in the gay community, I have come to realize that the gay lifestyle (at least in bars and clubs) is pretty empty and superficial. Promiscuity is the name of the game and the only thing most people care about is physical appearance and who they are going to bed with that night. That's not all gay people (you are certainly an exception) but it goes for a majority of the people who frequent gay bars and clubs. Maybe there is another segment of the gay community out there that is not this way? The straight scene is the same way in the bars and clubs but straights have many other outlets to meet and mingle. What do gays have? Manhunt? Don't get me started on that.

Plus I don't really enjoy sodomy...I enjoy a deep emotional and spiritual connection with another man, well beyond what any straight man would desire.


So far I like the idea of distancing myself and setting boundries on where my parents can control me, but thats easier said than done. Every Sunday they call me and ask me if I went to church and where. If I don't talk to them about it they will assume I didn't go and I will have to hear my dad go berserk about it.

As for religion...I definitely don't want to give it up but I can't be part of the Independent Baptist cult and be happy with myself. That religion is about fear and control. I however have a difficult time grasping the concept of a more open, permissive God because its so different than the concept of God I grew up with. Maybe a minister at a more liberal church could help me with this? If I was to try some more liberal churches what denominations would be a good fit? One thing I've experienced is most young people who are religious gravitate towards the more conservative denominations. Nearly every liberal church I've attended has been a mostly older congregation. Are there open minded churches out there that are also popular with young people?

Thanks for all the replies by the way. Every one of them, on both sides of the issue, have been very helpful.
Please consider going to the Gay Christian Network
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:00 PM
 
7,788 posts, read 10,450,484 times
Reputation: 3392
Default June in the "first person"

Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post

I enjoy a deep emotional and spiritual connection with another man, well beyond what any straight man would desire.

June usually posts in the "third person." That's because June is "just June."

However, there are occassions when June posts in the "first person." For a reason. This post is one of "those reasons."

I first read the OP, from my office, about twelve hours ago, and it has remained with me ever since. I rarely post, but this particular issue compelled me to finally say something. I remember logging off, and sitting in my office thinking about the OP, and the fact that as a psychotherapist in Massachusetts, at least one quarter of my caseload is comprised of gay individuals. As such, despite my being both straight AND an atheist, it gave me pause to think about the OP....

I may be an atheist, but I am hardly a stupid one. At times I feel as though the bible I read is nowhere near the same one that the "believers" on this forum profess to read. I can't account for that discrepancy, and oftentimes blame myself for "just not getting" that which divides us. --But this much I do know:

The bible I read, and have read, and that which is conveyed here translate vastly different messages. I cannot begin to fathom that the message that JUNE READS in the bible is one that would in any way wish to convey to you to be any less than who you are. I understand the demoninational aspect far more than others would probably be willing to give me credit for, and I respect that. But this much I do know:

You, dear OP, owe it to yourself to BE YOURSELF. "Religion" and "upbringing" and "denominational beliefs" are constructs imposed upon what is already the written "Word." (With a capital "W.") Perhaps we, in this world, and on this forum, really aren't reading the saime bible...Perhaps I am merely an intellectual atheist shrink who spent too much time studying theology, spirituality, but merely lacks the "faith aspect" that is needed somewhere along the line in order to make sense of this whole "gay issue." I doubt it. I oh, so seriously do...

--I listen to my patients who are gay, who are young, who have values that are as genuine as yours are: family, and your connection to them. And I listen to the angst, the despair, the nihilation that they undergo all in the name of, for the sake of "religion." -I am NOT minimizing the impact of that. I am merely saying that there is no peace to be had, to come, from denying who one is. I do NOT say that "merely as a shrink" as that would be an all too easy out. I am saying that based upon what I have read in your NT, and what Jesus, himself, said...

And I still wonder: Are we all reading the same bible?

Listen to Denverian. Listen to that part of your own self --your heart-- from which your own above quoted words emminated from....Because even this nonbeliever would be inclined to say: "Therein, you will find God."

I don't care what the bible "says" about homosexuality. I do, however, care about what it says about individuals, who Jesus was, and what he said. I do care about who is considered a "child of God" and I DO care about the overall message --the overall message-- that it conveys, independant of denominational persuasion.. --So this northern liberal, quasi-nonbelieving shrink is saying to you: Seek out those who can help you to be you.

Jesus did not come, nor would he have addressed the "not you" in you.

"Come as you are."

How often in my three years of being on this forum have I read those words? They want me, the nonbeiving atheist. --If that's so, then you and I should be joining hands in getting there. Irrespective of man-made or superimposed denomination. So, in short, the atheist of this forum is telling you: Read the bible. Read the NT. Find a really good therapist/spiritual advisor who understands --really understands-- who you are.

And reconcile yourself with that.

It's a long, torturous process, which I only know by proxy. But I can also tell you that I also know, by proxy, just how murderous to one's soul it is to not traverse that process....Which, if there is any definition of "sin" would be the utter denial and self alienation of the self; of who you are; who God intended and meant you to be....Jesus didn't preach about self-alienation. He preached the contary. And within your own words, quoted above, this atheist almost finds him...

I mean it.

That's powerful....


Take gentle care.

Last edited by june 7th; 06-17-2010 at 09:21 PM..
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:13 PM
 
365 posts, read 424,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Exactly. Jesus stands ready to set the sinner free. If the sinner refuses, death will be the wages of sin. Who in their right mind would work for such a wage as that?
There is no doubt that all men from Adam on have had to repent in order to have a right relationship with God. The importance of repentance is demonstrated by the fact that men of every biblical age preached it.

John the Baptist preached it in Mark 1:15 when he said, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel."


Paul preached it in Acts 20:21, "Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ."


And the Lord Jesus Christ Himself emphasized its importance when He said in Luke 13:3, "Except ye repent, ye shall all like-wise perish."


The unrepented homosexual will never enter the kingdom of God. Those who believe they can continue in homosexuality and no need to repent are deceiving themselves and have been tricked by false teachers.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:15 PM
 
365 posts, read 424,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Everyone will repent of what they need to repent of because thats what God will bring everyone to do, however the problem with finger pointers such as you is that you refuse to see that by your own standard, you will not enter the kingdom, if your standard is true.
What you wrote is not supported by the bible.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:17 PM
 
365 posts, read 424,610 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
Well, all I can say about the Kingdom of Heaven or God or whatever you want to call it - if they don't let gays in then I don't want to be there either. I want to go where the gays are.
Narrow is the gate to salvation and life. And wide is the gate to destruction. You would never be happy in heaven because for all eternity in heaven there will be no homosexuality and no gay relationships. Heaven is not for everyone and most people will not be there. Your choice is made.

Isaiah 55:8
8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:20 PM
 
365 posts, read 424,610 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
Move to New York! There are many younger, liberal, gay-loving churches here! ..
That won't help him because those "gay churches" and "gay ministers" are not true born again Christians.

God never changes, God has not allowed homosexuality to continue. That is a man made lie when they tell you that a gay man can continue in a homosexuality lifestyle and still be saved.

God was very clear on this issue and God does not conform to the world.

Leviticus 18:22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Leviticus 20:13 If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

He has to make a choice. Choose to remain in homosexuality and be lost, or choose to follow God's way and repent and be saved. The choice is his, but he has to make a choice, he cannot have it both ways.

Amen.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,390,644 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart View Post
That won't help him because those "gay churches" and "gay ministers" are not true born again Christians.

God never changes, God has not allowed homosexuality to continue. That is a man made lie when they tell you that a gay man can continue in a homosexuality lifestyle and still be saved.

God was very clear on this issue and God does not conform to the world.

Leviticus 18:22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Leviticus 20:13 If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

He has to make a choice. Choose to remain in homosexuality and be lost, or choose to follow God's way and repent and be saved. The choice is his, but he has to make a choice, he cannot have it both ways.

Amen.
I don't know why.. but I have a soft spot in my heart for the gay community. It wasn't always this way as I believe they were forever damned for almost 30 years but recently I have begun to see for myself that people are people.

I think a lot of it has to do with the attacks on gays from the christians who are told to love their enemies!

and here is a young man struggling yet all some post is how he will be burned forever for his own feelings!

Have some compassion christians! For God's sake show some compassion.

All the Christians should really watch this video on unconditional love.

YouTube - David - Gay Son & Family Restoration
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:43 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,652 posts, read 7,120,208 times
Reputation: 2840
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart View Post
That won't help him because those "gay churches" and "gay ministers" are not true born again Christians.
Wow we have God on the forum! How cool, finaly we know who will and won't be saved!
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,199 posts, read 20,129,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart View Post
Narrow is the gate to salvation and life. And wide is the gate to destruction. You would never be happy in heaven because for all eternity in heaven there will be no homosexuality and no gay relationships. Heaven is not for everyone and most people will not be there. Your choice is made.
At least I won't be lonely!
Peace to you.
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