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Old 06-18-2010, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,697,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Well that is your subjective opinion, but I can bet my bottom dollar that with or without this 'sin' you speak of, some Christians STILL have a problem with a homosexual having urges toward the same sex. THAT in many of their minds is also the "sin."

Now, read carefully what you stated. You admit that people CAN be BORN WITH the desire for the same sex which is another way of admitting (correctly) that people can be born gay. Using your theological worldview, who is responsible for that? Isn't it your god (in your world) who created every single child? If you are born that way, how can you 'sin' if you act on what comes natural to you that is ALSO not against the law of the land?
It's natural for people to be selfish. Anyone who is around children knows this. One doesn't have to be taught to be selfish. We are born sinners, but does that make sin okay? No!
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,697,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
We used to have an "Ex-gay" man in our neighborhood. I remember the first time I met him, at a party. He started talking to me, offered to bring me a drink. After getting the feeling he was "interested" in me and obviously gay, I let him know I had a partner. He was rather flamboyant, a big flower gardener, and had a home staging business. When he introduced me to his wife I about spit my drink on her! I mean, it was just so wrong looking for him to pretend to be hetero. I mostly felt sorry for his wife. Maybe they were mostly just shopping buddies?

I've read about some of these "ex-gay" ministries and they admit that most of their "converts" never truly convert. Their goal is to get gay men to just deny their true selves and live their lives alone and love-less. Pretty pathetic.
Wow, talk about stereotypes! I know a man who is very artsy and flamboyant, but is straight as an arrow! He has a gorgeous wife and their marriage is something I strive to have!
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:18 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,738,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
It's natural for people to be selfish. Anyone who is around children knows this. One doesn't have to be taught to be selfish. We are born sinners, but does that make sin okay? No!
We ALL are selfish in one form or another just about every single day. It in itself, depending the context, is not ALWAYS a bad thing. But that being said, aren't we comparing apples with oranges in a sense? In addition, aren't you and Graham admitting that gay people are born gay? Did they have control over being born that way and if they did not, whose fault was that?
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:19 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,738,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
It's natural for people to be selfish. Anyone who is around children knows this. One doesn't have to be taught to be selfish. We are born sinners, but does that make sin okay? No!
'Natural,' eh?
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Old 06-19-2010, 08:39 AM
 
5,441 posts, read 4,695,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Now, read carefully what you stated. You admit that people CAN be BORN WITH the desire for the same sex which is another way of admitting (correctly) that people can be born gay. Using your theological worldview, who is responsible for that? Isn't it your god (in your world) who created every single child? If you are born that way, how can you 'sin' if you act on what comes natural to you that is ALSO not against the law of the land?
Nonsensical logic. Man accepted the devil's fruit (sin), and the world fell. Why are people born with health problems? The fall. Mankind is in the hands of the devil. Just imagine what hell will be like? No God, no love, no trees, no life -- just death, death, death. This is what sin brings.

Given the fall of man, some people are truly born gay. They have the wrong desire, and Jesus can deliver them from that. Jesus came to set the captives free. Sin of any kind is devil bondage.

Jesus is the only door to set people free. If they won't accept all of Him, and all of His truth, then they will remain children of the devil; and his inheritance will be their inheritance too -- hell fire.
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Old 06-19-2010, 10:01 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
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I don't think God would give us this overpowering sex drive and then freak out how we use it. As long as it is not harming others I don't think he really cares.
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:06 PM
 
17,853 posts, read 11,829,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
This is a very dark time in my life. Having last year come out of the closet as a gay man, I experienced endless mental torture from my family. In their church, homosexuality is the worst sin possible for mankind to commit, and they made sure I was aware of that almost every day by phone calls, text, email, or some other mention. But this isn't about homosexuality or trying to justify it. My family is very dear to me. I was raised in a strict Independent Fundamental Baptist church and when I was attending the church and following the rules, I was very close to my family. All of that changed when I came out gay and subsequently left the church. When most people in my shoes would disown their family in such a situation, I cannot bring myself to do it. My family means too much for me.

That said, upon a recent visit to them after not seeing them for a year, I went back into the closet and told them my homosexuality was just a phase and was now over it. In my heart, if being able to have a loving mom and dad means I must suppress my feelings towards other men, then so be it. Plus, the fact it was drilled into me every Sunday morning, night and Wednesday night for 22 years that homosexuality is at the top of God's list of abominations, much of my inner being believes that it is sinful and I will go to hell for living a homosexual lifestyle, whether I can change the feelings or not. So I have given that up.

While things were better for a little while, they have gotten much worse, almost as bad as it was when I told them I was gay. I missed church Sunday because I went to a local amusement park and was told that afternoon by my parents that I am headed for hell, they do not trust me at all, and they are ashamed of me. That same message was re-iterated to me on the phone tonight because I question that the earth might be older than 6,000 years. I get called a mocker and a scoffer by them. Truth is, as horrible as all this sounds, my parents do love me and these issues break their hearts because they really believe I will go to hell for them. The only way I can make them happy is to completely cut myself off from the world and find an old-fashioned, fundamental, Independent Baptist church and dedicate my entire life to God and the church. Once again, a big part of me sees this as the right thing to do. I feel like I am trying to justify sin in my life by posting this message.

That said, the other side of me has done research on religion and specifically the Independent Fundamental Baptist denomination and their cult-like beliefs. With them, its either you are with them or against them and there is no middle ground. I am not sure if the Bible is meant to be taken entirely literal or figuratively...though a figurative interpretation is damnable heresy in the church. I question why a God who hates homosexuals so much would allow me, son of an Independent Baptist preacher, to have homosexual tendencies. Through college and research my mind has been opened that I have difficult time believing whole-heartedly the earth is only 6,000 years old. Its getting very close to time I am going to have to face a decision I am dreading. I am either going to have to jump in the IFB cult wholeheartedly or disown my family entirely and live my own life. The religious side of me tells me the former will lead me to heaven while the latter will send me to hell.

One thing always taught to me growing up was that if you obey God He will bless you and if you do not obey you will be cursed. If I take the route of living my own life, I feel not only will I burn in hell, but I will have a life of sorrow and hardship as God pours out his wrath on me.

No matter which path I choose...I don't feel I will ever find peace. I can't turn to a more mainstream Christianity teaching God's love because my family will never accept that. Plus, I have a difficult time reconciling the notion of a loving God with the persona of God I grew up with: angry, vengeful, full of wrath, who is coming soon to destroy the world by fire and brimstone. I might as well go all out and be a gay atheist if I am going to go for a more liberal interpretation of Christianity. In fact, it would be easier to do. I wish I could become an atheist because I would have a much greater peace if there was no God than I do now knowing I am on the brink of God's wrath being unleashed on me, but I know in my heart God is real.

I know this has been a long post and I thank you for reading. I should probably seek counseling on this but I cannot afford it right now and I don't have job security. Any advice or further questions would be appreciated. I would like to find a solution that would be beneficial to both me and my family, but I cannot think of a way on my own that it could happen.
BChris, as a mother and a gay woman, my heart goes out to you. I've seen the damage that ignorance, misinformation and bigotry can cause, especially for young gay people. There are a couple of posts in this thread which are truly ignorant and offensive and make my skin crawl.

I noticed you are in Charlotte. From a quick web search, there is a free Christian Support group for gay men aged 20-39 yrs listed on GayCharlotte website:

GayCharlotte.com - Directory - Christian Support Group For Gay Men Ages 20-39

You should be able to find support through your city's lgbt community services - whether it's free or low cost counselling or linking you up with social groups.

The website also links to a free book (pdf format) written by the Mount Kisco Presbyterian Church in New York called "What We Wish We Had Known (The Blue Book) Breaking the Silence, Moving Toward Understanding". I just read it and think you may find it helpful.
http://www.pcmk.org/blue_book.pdf
Quote:
This is one of the best Resource Books for helping build bridges of understanding for individuals, families, and communities around sexual orientation issues. It is now available in digital PDF format online, so you can download it today. In its 70 pages, there are sections in Question/Answer format dealing with Scientific Perspectives, Social Perspectives, Family Life Perspectives, and Theological Perspectives. The resource is useful for secular or religious settings.
From what I have seen of your posts on CD, you have made great strides in the past year or two. But it's not easy without some help -there is support available from the lgbt community to help you if you look for it and accept it.

Avoid the homophobic "ex-gay" groups like NARTH and Exodus and Love Wins Out etc. They use misinformation and unscientific nonsense (like that posted by one of the posters in this thread) which only really teaches you self-hatred and to lie to yourself and others. The APA and all the other major professional health organisations warn about the dangers with this type of "reparative" therapy. It doesn't work and it can be very harmful.

I hope you can eventually find the peace you are looking for. No doubt it won't be easy because of your background and the ignorance and bigotry of your family and because it's unlikely they will change. But you've already made changes in your life by admitting to yourself that you are gay. The next step is learning to accept that there is nothing wrong with being gay. Lovely caring intelligent gay men like Denverian are not an exception at all. But the gay bar scene is probably not the right place to find them.

Take care and don't lose hope.

J

Last edited by Ceist; 06-19-2010 at 12:23 PM..
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Old 06-19-2010, 02:20 PM
 
1,963 posts, read 4,268,854 times
Reputation: 1433
Just because someone disagrees with a lifestyle, it doesn`t mean they are so-called "homophobic." I`d like to know were that word even came from, anyway. The thing is not ALL gay people find it offensive if you disagree with their lifestyle. I have a family member who is gay and they know that we disagree with that lifestyle. Yet, we still have a relationship with them and have a peaceful relationship. We don`t try and talk them out of their lifestyle nor do we talk about it ever because that is the choice that they made.

The thing that I noticed that if you disagree with homosexuality, you are automatically "labeled," it`s always a double standard.
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Old 06-19-2010, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,199 posts, read 20,237,432 times
Reputation: 22104
Quote:
Originally Posted by cl723 View Post
Just because someone disagrees with a lifestyle, it doesn`t mean they are so-called "homophobic." I`d like to know were that word even came from, anyway. The thing is not ALL gay people find it offensive if you disagree with their lifestyle. I have a family member who is gay and they know that we disagree with that lifestyle. Yet, we still have a relationship with them and have a peaceful relationship. We don`t try and talk them out of their lifestyle nor do we talk about it ever because that is the choice that they made.

The thing that I noticed that if you disagree with homosexuality, you are automatically "labeled," it`s always a double standard.
You might have a peaceful relationship with your family member - but I bet it stills hurts them a little bit to know that you "disagree" with their "lifestyle". And I don't know how close you can ever be with someone if you never talk about their "lifetsyle" - since their "lifestyle" includes anyone they might happen to fall in love with. I know I'm definitely not close at all to anyone that I can't talk about my husband with! And do you consider you being straight a "lifestyle?"

I was lucky enough to be raised by parents who didn't instill any sort of prejudice in me. I have never thought of homosexuality as evil, a sin, wrong, immoral, or anything of that sort. I have always thought of it as just love. And I was raised thinking that love and understanding were the most important things. I don't base my opinions of people on things like who they are attracted to. I base my opinions of people on how they treat others - ALL others.
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Old 06-19-2010, 02:52 PM
 
1,963 posts, read 4,268,854 times
Reputation: 1433
Well, obviously we treat them with respect because we still have a relationship with them. Matter of fact, we ARE the only family members who have been there for them. As far as closeness goes, we were never "superclose" and it was way before we even knew that they were gay. So that has nothing to do wether someone is gay or not.

That`s your right to think the way you do about homosexuality. But I find it funny how people like myself who disagree , get "labled." Yet, I am the one with the peaceful relationship with my gay family member and yet, I get called all kind of names by those who disagree with me. This is very contradictive. People who are gay don`t want to be labled, yet they label those who disagree and attack verbaly those who disagree.
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