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Old 06-18-2010, 09:40 AM
 
Location: God's Country
21,430 posts, read 29,586,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
Amen, Jremy !!
"LOVE" is speaking the TRUTH !!! And God has shown His LOVE through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ came to save a world that is infested, sicken with sin and in need of a SAVIOR !!!
Man's love is selfish, self-serving, sensual, covetous, always looking out for #1.... PERIOD !!
Just read the threads in this forum and they show a fine example of false love....
Absolutely! Yes God is love, but He would go against His character and nature if He ignored sin and disobedience.

 
Old 06-18-2010, 09:54 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,573,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jremy View Post
My guess is that when people say this, it could be that they're trying to say that a gospel of all love and nothing else, with no mention of sin, hell or judgment, is another gospel. If that's what they mean, they're right.
How about combining love with discipline - there's a thought...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jremy View Post
What's bad is omitting vital truths that people need to hear--sin and God's wrath against it. Omitting those truths is NOT love.
No one is doing that - again, people are hearing and reading what they want. God's wrath is against the carnal nature in me right now - He will purge His vessels until they are suitable for New Wine.

Hard to understand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jremy View Post
Not only does it keep people from knowing the danger they are in, but it also cheapens the grace of God.
If you listen to what some of us are saying, sin is bigger than you guys believe - it's not a collection of acts, but the very nature we are born with. As far as cheapening the grace of God, it's glorifying His plan, purpose and power to accomplish His desire.

How is that cheapening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jremy View Post
If sin is downplayed, then grace is made to appear not quite as great as it really is. It's only when we realize the full extent of the punishment that Christ saved his people from that we will see how great that salvation is. Someone who trips and is kept from falling a few feet will not highly value the act of someone helping him up. At most he will give a polite "thank you" and move on. But if he is saved from drowning or from a burning building, how much greater will the rescue be in his eyes.
Where sin abounds, grace much more abounds. (Rom 5:20)

God makes a person acutely aware of their tresspasses and failures. There is no shortcuts to the realization of our need for Him. Note though, that I am saying something to the church here: If all she sees in herself and the world is the surface, she's missing the lesson of life - she cannot be united with Him without realizing the depth of her depravity - she must do as she's told and take up her cross in order to deny the flesh...

...because her original nature is the problem. So it is with everyone. God can and will deal with us first, then we will be suitable to show Him to the world. Once they see Him for who He (really) is, they're in.
 
Old 06-18-2010, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,404,036 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jremy View Post
Quote?
katjonjj
Quote:
Citation?
katjonjj umm.. city-data?
Quote:
Context?
opinion of things I've seen and discussed with poster of C-D...

Quote:
My guess is that when people say this, it could be that they're trying to say that a gospel of all love and nothing else, with no mention of sin, hell or judgment, is another gospel. If that's what they mean, they're right.
Yes that is what they mean... That if you don't mention HELL, SIN, JUDGMENT .... then it's the wrong gospel. Well... MY point was when does loving someone cause BAD things? IF love is as 1 Cor 13 says it is then how can loving people cause people to sin...

See that is my question. If you love others you will NATURALLY do what is right.. and that is another gospel? other than what gospel? Jesus taught the very things I am saying.

Quote:
It's not. What's bad is omitting vital truths that people need to hear--sin and God's wrath against it.
I am no better than others in regards to sin... Are you afraid they missed the memo on doing bad things? Most people feel guilt whether they are christians or not. So you think God's instrument of salvation is FEAR? and I think he saves people with LOVE....

So tell me.. HOW does teaching people to love one another differ from that of the teachings in the bible?

Quote:
Omitting those truths is NOT love. Not only does it keep people from knowing the danger they are in,
What danger? People are in danger? Again FEAR as a motivator?

Quote:
but it also cheapens the grace of God. If sin is downplayed, then grace is made to appear not quite as great as it really is.
Do you realize what grace is?
Noah Webster's New International Dictionary of the English Language
1. (n.) The exercise of love, kindness, mercy, favor; disposition to benefit or serve another; favor bestowed or privilege conferred.
2. (n.) The divine favor toward man; the mercy of God, as distinguished from His justice; also, any benefits His mercy imparts; divine love or pardon; a state of acceptance with God; enjoyment of the divine favor.
3. (n.) The prerogative of mercy exercised by the executive, as pardon.


Look at #1 ... The exercise of love... but you are saying that one must mention sin and judgment in order to make God's grace stronger?


WE love him because he first loved us.... it is God's love and grace that brings people to repentance.... FEAR does nothing. Fear may be a motivator for you to serve God but for me it is his LOVE and GRACE that compels me to serve him.


Quote:
It's only when we realize the full extent of the punishment that Christ saved his people from that we will see how great that salvation is. Someone who trips and is kept from falling a few feet will not highly value the act of someone helping him up. At most he will give a polite "thank you" and move on. But if he is saved from drowning or from a burning building, how much greater will the rescue be in his eyes.
Yes... people know themselves what they are rescued from and it is none of my business butting into their relationship with their creator... I don't need to use fear to show God's love.

If what you say is true (and I believe it is) then the salvation given to Hitler (a great sinner) is the ultimate deliverance. Sin causes death not an eternity in hell so why would I tell someone something that is not the truth.

Here.... what you can do is show me where the bible states NOT to teach that God is LOVE. Can you do that?
 
Old 06-18-2010, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,404,036 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Absolutely! Yes God is love, but He would go against His character and nature if He ignored sin and disobedience.
Ignoring sin and disobedience is the very definition of Grace!
 
Old 06-18-2010, 10:41 AM
 
Location: God's Country
21,430 posts, read 29,586,943 times
Reputation: 29947
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Ignoring sin and disobedience is the very definition of Grace!
Only if you are saved, to say otherwise is well, false gospel.
 
Old 06-18-2010, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,404,036 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Only if you are saved, to say otherwise is well, false gospel.
Again.. you fail to understand Grace.

Proverbs 3:34 Though He scoffs at the scoffers, Yet He gives grace to the afflicted.

Gal. 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

So that the grace of God is given BEFORE righteousness is achieved..

Grace is love and mercy, to show favor (usually when undeserved).

Those that are saved don't even NEED grace... they already have it if they are privy to the knowledge of God.

Jesus came to call the sinners, heal the sick, save the lost... save and seek out the lost.

2 Cor. 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.

If you think grace is ONLY for those who are saved then you are preaching another gospel... or do you have some reason why you think that way that we could discuss?
 
Old 06-18-2010, 11:07 AM
 
20,329 posts, read 15,696,619 times
Reputation: 7456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jremy View Post
Quote? Citation? Context?

My guess is that when people say this, it could be that they're trying to say that a gospel of all love and nothing else, with no mention of sin, hell or judgment, is another gospel. If that's what they mean, they're right.

It's not. What's bad is omitting vital truths that people need to hear--sin and God's wrath against it. Omitting those truths is NOT love. Not only does it keep people from knowing the danger they are in, but it also cheapens the grace of God. If sin is downplayed, then grace is made to appear not quite as great as it really is. It's only when we realize the full extent of the punishment that Christ saved his people from that we will see how great that salvation is. Someone who trips and is kept from falling a few feet will not highly value the act of someone helping him up. At most he will give a polite "thank you" and move on. But if he is saved from drowning or from a burning building, how much greater will the rescue be in his eyes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Agree!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
Amen, Jremy !!
"LOVE" is speaking the TRUTH !!! And God has shown His LOVE through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ came to save a world that is infested, sicken with sin and in need of a SAVIOR !!!
Man's love is selfish, self-serving, sensual, covetous, always looking out for #1.... PERIOD !!
Just read the threads in this forum and they show a fine example of false love....
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Absolutely! Yes God is love, but He would go against His character and nature if He ignored sin and disobedience.


Yes, God is love. But God is also holy. And He describes Himself in His word in terms of holiness more often than in terms of love. God's love motivated Him to provide salvation for the world. But it was His holiness, specifically, His justice, which is one half of His holiness, with His righteousness being the other half, which actually provided the opportunity for men to be saved. It was the judical act of God in imputing the personal sins of each of us onto Christ, and then judging those sins, that made salvation possible. But the work of Christ on the Cross in bearing those sins is only appropriated by those who accept Christ as Savior. Those who depart this life without Christ die in their sins and face eternal judgment, first in hades, and then in the place described as the lake of fire. After death, there are no reprieves, no second chances, no purgatory. If God's grace is rejected, then His justice must come into play in eternal judgment.

Paul presents the Gospel in a nutshell in 1 Corinthians 15:3, but not all the Gospel. He states, ''For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, [4] and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures...

But that's not the complete Gospel. John 3:16 presents another aspect of the Gospel. ''For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

And the opportunity, the window for salvation for any individual closes at the point of physical death. Far in opposition to the heresy of any supposed second chance after death, the word of God says the following...

John 8:24 ''I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins.''

Hebrews 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment...

Both the good news and the bad news is presented in John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

Sin is only part of the problem with regard to man's relationship with God. To have an eternal relationship with God, man must have the same life and the same righteousness as God has. It is only at the point of believing in Christ for salvation that God imputes both His eternal life and His perfect righteousness to the one who has believed, therefore qualifying that person to enter into an eternal relationship with God. In addition, the church-age believer is entered into union with Christ and therefore shares the righteousness of Christ as well as His eternal life.

In keeping with the demand's of His holiness, the justice of God with regard to eternal condemnation must come into play against all who reject the justice of God as it relates to having provided eternal salvation through the work of Christ on the Cross. Those who suffer eternal separation from God in Gehenna, the lake of fire, have only themselves to blame.
 
Old 06-18-2010, 11:11 AM
 
Location: God's Country
21,430 posts, read 29,586,943 times
Reputation: 29947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post


Yes, God is love. But God is also holy. And He describes Himself in His word in terms of holiness more often than in terms of love. God's love motivated Him to provide salvation for the world. But it was His holiness, specifically, His justice, which is one half of His holiness, with His righteousness being the other half, which actually provided the opportunity for men to be saved. It was the judical act of God in imputing the personal sins of each of us onto Christ, and then judging those sins, that made salvation possible. But the work of Christ on the Cross in bearing those sins is only appropriated by those who accept Christ as Savior. Those who depart this life without Christ die in their sins and face eternal judgment, first in hades, and then in the place described as the lake of fire. After death, there are no reprieves, no second chances, no purgatory. If God's grace is rejected, then His justice must come into play in eternal judgment.

Paul presents the Gospel in a nutshell in 1 Corinthians 15:3, but not all the Gospel. He states, ''For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, [4] and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures...

But that's not the complete Gospel. John 3:16 presents another aspect of the Gospel. ''For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

And the opportunity, the window for salvation for any individual closes at the point of physical death. Far in opposition to the heresy of any supposed second chance after death, the word of God says the following...

John 8:24 ''I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins.''

Hebrews 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment...

Both the good news and the bad news is presented in John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

Sin is only part of the problem with regard to man's relationship with God. To have an eternal relationship with God, man must have the same life and the same righteousness as God has. It is only at the point of believing in Christ for salvation that God imputes both His eternal life and His perfect righteousness to the one who has believed, therefore qualifying that person to enter into an eternal relationship with God. In addition, the church-age believer is entered into union with Christ and therefore shares the righteousness of Christ as well as His eternal life.

In keeping with the demand's of His holiness, the justice of God with regard to eternal condemnation must come into play against all who reject the justice of God as it relates to having provided eternal salvation through the work of Christ on the Cross. Those who suffer eternal separation from God in Gehenna, the lake of fire, have only themselves to blame.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!
 
Old 06-18-2010, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,404,036 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post


Yes, God is love. But God is also holy. And He describes Himself in His word in terms of holiness more often than in terms of love. God's love motivated Him to provide salvation for the world. But it was His holiness, specifically, His justice, which is one half of His holiness, with His righteousness being the other half, which actually provided the opportunity for men to be saved. It was the judical act of God in imputing the personal sins of each of us onto Christ, and then judging those sins, that made salvation possible. But the work of Christ on the Cross in bearing those sins is only appropriated by those who accept Christ as Savior. Those who depart this life without Christ die in their sins and face eternal judgment, first in hades, and then in the place described as the lake of fire. After death, there are no reprieves, no second chances, no purgatory. If God's grace is rejected, then His justice must come into play in eternal judgment.

Paul presents the Gospel in a nutshell in 1 Corinthians 15:3, but not all the Gospel. He states, ''For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, [4] and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures...

But that's not the complete Gospel. John 3:16 presents another aspect of the Gospel. ''For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

And the opportunity, the window for salvation for any individual closes at the point of physical death. Far in opposition to the heresy of any supposed second chance after death, the word of God says the following...

John 8:24 ''I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins.''

Hebrews 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment...

Both the good news and the bad news is presented in John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

Sin is only part of the problem with regard to man's relationship with God. To have an eternal relationship with God, man must have the same life and the same righteousness as God has. It is only at the point of believing in Christ for salvation that God imputes both His eternal life and His perfect righteousness to the one who has believed, therefore qualifying that person to enter into an eternal relationship with God. In addition, the church-age believer is entered into union with Christ and therefore shares the righteousness of Christ as well as His eternal life.

In keeping with the demand's of His holiness, the justice of God with regard to eternal condemnation must come into play against all who reject the justice of God as it relates to having provided eternal salvation through the work of Christ on the Cross. Those who suffer eternal separation from God in Gehenna, the lake of fire, have only themselves to blame.
The picture you have of God is contradictory to scripture IMO...

But to each his own beliefs I guess. Have you read Paul's other version of the gospel? It's found in 1 Cor. 13...

God IS love... and love doesn't keep a record of wrongs... but you think he does, don't you? So which one is the lie... 1. God is Love or 2. Love doesn't keep a record of wrongs?
 
Old 06-18-2010, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,459,500 times
Reputation: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Ignoring sin and disobedience is the very definition of Grace!
Let's go a step further, when it's all said and done, getting your "just reward"....it's called JUDGMENT!!

If you're actually siting there thinking God is ignoring sin and disobedience, then calling it grace, you've got another thing coming......be careful, your threading on thin ice.
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