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Old 06-18-2010, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
"the wages of sin is death , ,. , if the wages of sin is death . . then . . .
We die. And, then?
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by trettep View Post
I would be interested in even one verse that says we are "eternally" lost. Remember "eternally" means to have no beginning and no end.
No. Eternally does not have to mean without beginning. It is understood that the eternal condemnation of the one who dies without Christ has eternity future in mind. The eternal future, from the present going forward is in view.
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:55 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
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the fate of the eternally lost:::


And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14, 15).
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death (Revelation 21:8).


When the lost die, and then are resurrected, there fate is spelled out above in two words . . . . SECOND DEATH . . .
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
"Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41).


Everlasting Fire . . . . for those eternally lost . . . everlasting is forever.
Well lifesigns, can we pursue this logically and reasonably? - my belief is that everlasting most often refers to aionios which is a Greek word that tells us that something shall continue beyond the present age. Consider that we are being punished right now - if you don't believe that then you would not belief death is a punishment but I believe it is. I believe I'm being punished with death which is the sentence/judgement prounounced upon those of Adam. So I know I will die because I have been given that sentence in Adam. But I also know I shall be made alive in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Fire to me is the same as the Holy Spirit. After, all when our Apostles received the Spirit they were on FIRE as cloven tongues of fire rested upon them as it is written.

I don't believe anyone can be "eternally" lost. For to believe such is to believe that some were brought into the world (remember God knows the end from the beginning) such that they should eventually be tormented forever (remember God desires the destruction of no man which would mean if someone is tormented forever that God gets what He didnt disire forever).
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:57 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
"Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41).


Everlasting Fire . . . . for those eternally lost . . . everlasting is forever.


Eternal means without beginning or ending. There is nothing eternal but God.

What does everlasting mean when you see it used in scripture?
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:58 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
"the wages of sin is death , ,. , if the wages of sin is death . . then . . .
Sure all that sin shall die. But all shall eventually receive Life because the purpose of Jesus being sent was to eradicate sin. If Jesus accomplishes that mission then it means there is not place for sin to be received because there is no longer sin.
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:03 AM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
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Everlasting means everlasting

The Bible says that salvation is eternal (Hebrews 5:9), life is eternal (John 6:54), redemption is eternal (Hebrews 9:12), and the inheritance of the saints is eternal (Hebrews 9:15). But it says also that the Lake of fire is eternal, (Matthew 18:8; Jude 7); The punishment of the wicked and the life of the righteous are for equal duration, “for ever and ever.”
. . . the smoke of their torment ascends for ever and ever.


Everlasting, eternal, forever and ever, second death . . . that's what I am reading.

God's message of eternal life, or eternal desruction . . . is clear, and the words eternal, forever and ever, everlasting and Death are not words when translated back to Greeek, change their meaning. . . .
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,398,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
Everlasting means everlasting

The Bible says that salvation is eternal (Hebrews 5:9), life is eternal (John 6:54), redemption is eternal (Hebrews 9:12), and the inheritance of the saints is eternal (Hebrews 9:15). But it says also that the Lake of fire is eternal, (Matthew 18:8; Jude 7); The punishment of the wicked and the life of the righteous are for equal duration, “for ever and ever.”
. . . the smoke of their torment ascends for ever and ever.


Everlasting, eternal, forever and ever, second death . . . that's what I am reading.

God's message of eternal life, or eternal desruction . . . is clear, and the words eternal, forever and ever, everlasting and Death are not words when translated back to Greeek, change their meaning. . . .
What I am asking you is how many times in the Bible is the word "everlasting" used when it does not mean forever?

And, God himself is an eternal fire. How is the adversary going to be tormented in the PRESENCE of the lamb?
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:12 AM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,117,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
What I am asking you is how many times in the Bible is the word "everlasting" used when it "obviously" does not mean forever?

And, God himself is an eternal fire. How is the adversary going to be tormented in the PRESENCE of the lamb?
I was really liking this discussion, I'm gonna have to continue it tomorrow, my baby's waking up. Good questions, thought provoking, and will lead me to greater learning of His word, Good night!
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:14 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,398,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
I was really liking this discussion, I'm gonna have to continue it tomorrow, my baby's waking up. Good questions, thought provoking, and will lead me to greater learning of His word, Good night!
Have fun with your baby. Good night.
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