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Old 06-20-2010, 09:42 AM
 
1,220 posts, read 742,131 times
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Mike 555...you posted on 6/18/2010 @ 9:23 pm saying that "Many of those who promote Universal Salvation are not even saved and are going to spend eternity in the lake of fire."

Aside from the obvious...you've yet to reconcile some hurtful thought, word, and deed directed at you...your understanding of eternity would scare those away for whom the kingdom of heaven is for. Please explain to everyone what pleasure God could possibly derive from knowing that people from your vision of the future should spend eternity being tormented in a lake of fire. Who could endure that endless pain ? Go back and learn what this means, "I WILL HAVE MERCY AND NOT SACRIFICE"...then maybe, just maybe you might understand that regardless of the severity of any torment a particular individual may incur in this lake of fire, their torment is but for a moment...it is the smoke from that torment that is eternal. Every attempt by you from this point forward to defend your erroneous viewpoint of eternity for the lost will only provide fuel for that lake of fire burning inside you. The Blessings of The Eternal bring you joy...
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Old 06-20-2010, 12:34 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,113,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
God's "LOVE" is never in vain..... period !!!
So true Latte, so true . . .
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Old 06-20-2010, 03:30 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,721,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewitness View Post
Mike 555...you posted on 6/18/2010 @ 9:23 pm saying that "Many of those who promote Universal Salvation are not even saved and are going to spend eternity in the lake of fire."

Aside from the obvious...you've yet to reconcile some hurtful thought, word, and deed directed at you...your understanding of eternity would scare those away for whom the kingdom of heaven is for. Please explain to everyone what pleasure God could possibly derive from knowing that people from your vision of the future should spend eternity being tormented in a lake of fire. Who could endure that endless pain ? Go back and learn what this means, "I WILL HAVE MERCY AND NOT SACRIFICE"...then maybe, just maybe you might understand that regardless of the severity of any torment a particular individual may incur in this lake of fire, their torment is but for a moment...it is the smoke from that torment that is eternal. Every attempt by you from this point forward to defend your erroneous viewpoint of eternity for the lost will only provide fuel for that lake of fire burning inside you. The Blessings of The Eternal bring you joy...

You falsely assume that God takes pleasure in sending people to the lake of fire.

Ezekiel 18:32 ''For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,'' declares the LORD God. ''Therefore repent and live.''

And yet, people end up first in Hades, and then finally in the eternal fire, because of their own free will they rejected God's offer of salvation. It is a matter of God's justice.

The torment is real, and it is eternal in duration. Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Eis tous aionas ton aionon- into the ages of the ages-forever and ever. The emphatic use of the Greek word Aionios.

Matthew 10:28 ''And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but reather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell

What does the word 'destroy mean'? It means the following...

[The following is from the P-R-E-C-E-P-T*** A-U-S-T-I-N website ]

Perish (622) (Apollumi from apo = away from or wholly + olethros = state of utter ruin <> ollumi = to destroy <> root of apollyon (Re 9:11) = destroyer) means to destroy uttery but not caused to exist.

Apollumi as it relates to men, is not the loss of being per se, but is the loss of well-being. It means to ruin so that the person (or thing) ruined can no longer serve the use for which he (it) was designed. To render useless. The gospel promises everlasting life for the one who believes. The failure to possess this life will result in utter ruin and eternal uselessness (but not a cessation of existence).

Apollumi then has the basic meaning of describing that which is ruined and is no longer usable for its intended purpose.

Apollumi is the term Jesus used to speak of those who are thrown into hell (Matt. 10:28): As He makes clear elsewhere, hell is not a place or state of nothingless or unconscious existence, as is the Hindu Nirvana but is the place of everlasting torment, the place of eternal death, where there will be ''weeping and gnashing of teeth (Mt 13:42,50)

Romans 2:9-12 Commentary
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

To destroy doesn't mean to wipe from existence. It means to uttery ruin and render eternally useless

The demons know and understand that eternal torment awaits them, even if ignorant men who deny reality don't.

Matthew 8:29 with reference to demons. ''And behold, they cried out, saying, ''What do we have to do with You, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?''

The demons know that there is coming a time when they will be tormented forever.

The torment is real, and it is eternal in duration. Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Eis tous aionas ton aionon- into the ages of the ages-forever and ever. The emphatic use of the Greek word Aionios.

The fallen angels are no less creatures of God then is man. Just as the angels that rebelled against God will be under eternal punishment, so also will unbelieving humanity suffer the same eternal suffering.

The Scriptures are clear, but the foolish (of which there are many) won't listen. Those who are wise will.
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Old 06-20-2010, 04:39 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 4,428,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewitness View Post
Mike 555...you posted on 6/18/2010 @ 9:23 pm saying that "Many of those who promote Universal Salvation are not even saved and are going to spend eternity in the lake of fire."

Aside from the obvious...you've yet to reconcile some hurtful thought, word, and deed directed at you...your understanding of eternity would scare those away for whom the kingdom of heaven is for. Please explain to everyone what pleasure God could possibly derive from knowing that people from your vision of the future should spend eternity being tormented in a lake of fire. Who could endure that endless pain ? Go back and learn what this means, "I WILL HAVE MERCY AND NOT SACRIFICE"...then maybe, just maybe you might understand that regardless of the severity of any torment a particular individual may incur in this lake of fire, their torment is but for a moment...it is the smoke from that torment that is eternal. Every attempt by you from this point forward to defend your erroneous viewpoint of eternity for the lost will only provide fuel for that lake of fire burning inside you. The Blessings of The Eternal bring you joy...
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Old 06-20-2010, 06:17 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,334 posts, read 20,066,943 times
Reputation: 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewitness View Post
Mike 555...you posted on 6/18/2010 @ 9:23 pm saying that "Many of those who promote Universal Salvation are not even saved and are going to spend eternity in the lake of fire."

Aside from the obvious...you've yet to reconcile some hurtful thought, word, and deed directed at you...your understanding of eternity would scare those away for whom the kingdom of heaven is for. Please explain to everyone what pleasure God could possibly derive from knowing that people from your vision of the future should spend eternity being tormented in a lake of fire. Who could endure that endless pain ? Go back and learn what this means, "I WILL HAVE MERCY AND NOT SACRIFICE"...then maybe, just maybe you might understand that regardless of the severity of any torment a particular individual may incur in this lake of fire, their torment is but for a moment...it is the smoke from that torment that is eternal. Every attempt by you from this point forward to defend your erroneous viewpoint of eternity for the lost will only provide fuel for that lake of fire burning inside you. The Blessings of The Eternal bring you joy...
Amen my friend .

Oh that God may soften our hearts and for us to feel and see how he does .
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Old 06-21-2010, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,463,141 times
Reputation: 934
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled


In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:


If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled,
and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
(Colossians 1: 20-23)


Oh, how many of my brother's and sister that loves the Lord take these scriptures and twist them to their own demise. Sad.

You have to believe on blood of Jesus in order to be saved! It says so! Its the BLOOD that saves! There's no second chances after death! Who told you that? Blasphemy! He was in His physical body of flesh, and it's THROUGH death that He is able to present you holy, unblameable, unreproveable to the FATHER! AND IT IS LIKEWISE YOU MUST ACCEPT, BELIEVE, ON HIM! While YOU are yet alive! In YOUR physical body!

Now, we know He's fair right? Agree? What He has done for one, He'll do for all? Yes? So those that reject Him in this lifetime, denied, never believed on the "blood that saves"......how is it you say that "you're saved at the end".... when it's all said and done, how so? Do He die a SECOND time around, He would have to...to be fair wouldn't He? How so, you ask? Let me ask you a question: What would make you believe then? He'll have to shed His blood again, right? That's fair, right? Following me? No?

Okay.. ...again scriptures: And, having made peace through the blood of His cross. Lets' stop here! Question: How is the reconciling accomplished? Answer: Through the BLOOD IF HIS CROSS, To Himself! By Christ's physical body through death! Remember, this is the very thing that you have rejected all your life, all your life!

Don't you see people? That you deny the very thing that saves you? Yet, you tell me that because He "loves me sooo much", that He"ll save you even though He came, and lived, and died for you and you yet refused Him? And He'll give you a second chance..."after I die"? NO!! Stop the lies! He already died ONCE! He's not dying again! Anything after this honey, it's eternal! For He's eternal!! Come on, it's late in the hour, stop it!


PS: And yessss!!!.....I forgot to add: Ye have to continue in the faith! Grounded and settled, and be not moved!!

Last edited by Betsey Lane; 06-21-2010 at 12:25 AM..
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Old 06-21-2010, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,390,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled


In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:


If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled,
and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
(Colossians 1: 20-23)


Oh, how many of my brother's and sister that loves the Lord take these scriptures and twist them to their own demise. Sad.

You have to believe on blood of Jesus in order to be saved! It says so! Its the BLOOD that saves! There's no second chances after death! Who told you that? Blasphemy! He was in His physical body of flesh, and it's THROUGH death that He is able to present you holy, unblameable, unreproveable to the FATHER! AND IT IS LIKEWISE YOU MUST ACCEPT, BELIEVE, ON HIM! While YOU are yet alive! In YOUR physical body!

Now, we know He's fair right? Agree? What He has done for one, He'll do for all? Yes? So those that reject Him in this lifetime, denied, never believed on the "blood that saves"......how is it you say that "you're saved at the end".... when it's all said and done, how so? Do He die a SECOND time around, He would have to...to be fair wouldn't He? How so, you ask? Let me ask you a question: What would make you believe then? He'll have to shed His blood again, right? That's fair, right? Following me? No?

Okay.. ...again scriptures: And, having made peace through the blood of His cross. Lets' stop here! Question: How is the reconciling accomplished? Answer: Through the BLOOD IF HIS CROSS, To Himself! By Christ's physical body through death! Remember, this is the very thing that you have
rejected all your life, all your life!

Don't you see people? That you deny the very thing that saves you? Yet, you tell me that because He "loves me sooo much", that He"ll save you even though He came, and lived, and died for you and you yet refused Him? And He'll give you a second chance..."after I die"? NO!! Stop the lies! He
already died ONCE! He's not dying again! Anything after this honey, it's eternal! For He's eternal!! Come on, it's late in the hour, stop it!


PS: And yessss!!!.....I forgot to add: Ye have to continue in the faith! Grounded and settled, and be not moved!!
Betsey, I'm more grounded than I have ever been in my entire life! Christ (Yeshua) is the Saviour of the world. EVERYTHING is going to be put back in order!!! Everything!

Yeshua is the messiah!
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Old 06-21-2010, 01:41 AM
 
1,220 posts, read 742,131 times
Reputation: 122
Default The Truth

Being tormented day and night for ever and ever in a lake of fire and brimstone...Mike555... we never made any false assumptions contrary to God's written word...yeah, God does not take pleasure in the death of an evil witness, neither does he take pleasure in those who spend His time justifying their judgmental attitude toward those who dying, will die. If you perceive yourself to be one of those two witnesses as it is written of, then show yourself openly styled after the manner of two who warn unbelieving people from our God who is a consuming fire...otherwise, as Jesus declared to those sons of thunder, "You know not what spirit you are of." Forsake wrath our friend, and The Eternal bring you joy.
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Old 06-21-2010, 02:02 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,125,287 times
Reputation: 866
Betsey,
If we know He's "fair," then we know that He doesn't give some people a few years of life to "choose Christ" and other people over 100 years to "choose." That would be "unfair."
Just by looking around this world we have been placed in, we come to an understanding that it can only be God who is guiding our lives, determining our length of days and habitations. We are all made differently, with different roads to take before He makes us to know Him.
God's "fairness" is putting all men in disobedience in order to have mercy upon all. THIS is fairness.

Blessings,
brian
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:30 AM
 
51 posts, read 105,780 times
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Jesus in His own words made it so very simple.He did,however,bury the truth a bit so that when Jesus quoted what God said through Isaiah in Matthew 13:14 "And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which said, By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive",It could be understood that He was saying that people (like scribes,Pharisees,& Sadducees) would not be able to understand His teachings,particularly His parables,because they worshiped at the altar of their own understanding (See Proverbs 3:5&6),creating a god in their own image,& denying the one true God who created them in His image.Jesus very simply addressed Heaven & Hell,& He did so in Luke 16,19 through 31.It will show that there are 2 destinations,not just 1,not 3,not 17.It will show that they who do not believe will show it by their actions (the rich man).They will show that they who believe (Lazarus) may well not be able to show proof through works in a way that the world will see,but they will have a ministry that gives the world opportunity to repent (As Lazarus did),even though the world,as represented by the rich man,will walk past this opportunity every day.Is there a Heaven & Hell? Jesus said so.You may try to argue words/concepts/Old Testament/New Testament,but there is a linearity that leads directly from this passage to Revelation 20:11-15.Here is what Jesus plainly said about Heaven & Hell in Luke 16:19-31:

19“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,c where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Have you been convinced by One risen from the dead today?Is His light cast upon your life making you want to be like Him?Is His power changing your life today?God bless you.If today you are not sure that you are worshiping Jesus,If you are believing something you have been taught or told or are desperately clinging to out of fear,let go.Find Jesus.Find Him in His word.He is there,He loves you just as you are,but he loves you too much to leave you as you are.Again,God bless you
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