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Consider for a moment of what goes on in many of these UR vs ET threads. The ETers will hurl argumentative insults towards the glorious gospel of God revolving around the Universal Saving power of God in order to gain a nugget of Truth. Essentially the UR is being baited with a rebellious arrogant attitude and gets rewarded with GOLD in the form of the TRUTHful comments that URs provide. Please cease from this. If a ETer wants the Truth don't reward the combative carnal nature with the Gold such that it gets treated as dung. But rather reward the seeker that desires the Truth with such Gold. Stop pandering to the unbeliever as if they will believe. God must FIRST give the heart. If the heart is not there then don't throw the Truth at a decieved heart. Giving the Truth to such a carnal nature is just to give the carnal nature power.
What does a post like this actually accomplish? Nothing whatsoever. I could easily say the same thing from the vantage point of ETers, and it would reflect the reality I have seen on this board over and over. Let's see:
Consider for a moment of what goes on in many of these UR vs ET threads. The URers will hurl argumentative insults towards the glorious gospel of God revolving around the wonderful grace of God in Christ, who died to save men from an eternal hell, and toward the true God as he has revealed himself in Scripture. Essentially the ETer is being baited with a rebellious arrogant attitude and gets rewarded with GOLD in the form of the TRUTHful comments that ETers provide. Please cease from this. If a URer wants the Truth don't reward the combative carnal nature with the Gold such that it gets treated as dung. But rather reward the seeker that desires the Truth with such Gold. Stop pandering to the unbeliever as if they will believe. God must FIRST give the heart. If the heart is not there then don't throw the Truth at a deceived heart. Giving the Truth to such a carnal nature is just to give the carnal nature power.
I hope this is understood. We must love our enemies and those that oppose ET but as brothers knowing that they are just deceived and not givin the heart. Once the heart desires then reveal, that is the sign that God has given a new heart.
One thing you did make me think of that is worthwhile, though, is that the ET/UR debate dominates this board. I think that should change. I abstained from this board for several months and recently came back on, and lo and behold, guess what threads were dominating? UR vs. ET.
There is no question that the gospel centered around UR is glorious and exciting and that it drives us to want to tell the world but we are given directive concerning this in the scriptures. Let us not think that nobody can be moved by this gospel but let's not think that the nature of the evil one should hear of it, nor pray for that one which is so inclined to oppose it. Let them rather fall nature to Satan such that they should understand weakness and their mountain should be lowered to a valley and they become humble and seek our Lord as we did and be saved.
Awesome. Let's continue playing the rhetoric game:
There is no question that the gospel centered around Christ saving sinners from the eternal wrath of God is glorious and exciting and that it drives us to want to tell the world but we are given directive concerning this in the scriptures. Let us not think that nobody can be moved by this gospel but let's not think that the nature of the evil one should hear of it, nor pray for that one which is so inclined to oppose it. Let them rather fall nature to Satan such that they should understand weakness and their mountain should be lowered to a valley and they become humble and seek our Lord as we did and be saved.
I just want to remind everyone there is not a single scripture that says that anyone that denied Christ presently shall be eternally lost. There is only scriptures that say if your presently denying Christ then you are lost.
I would be interested in even one verse that says we are "eternally" lost. Remember "eternally" means to have no beginning and no end.
It also means everlasting. Stop restricting the meanings of words. You guys incessantly do that. That's why you keep believing in the false teaching of universal reconciliation--well, it's one reason, at least.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him
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Moderator cut: Deleted - Calling out mods
I say this because the only thing that gets discussed here is universalism, not historical Christianity.
I agree. This board is dominated far too much with universalism. It's a wonder they don't make a separate subforum for it.
Well lifesigns, can we pursue this logically and reasonably? - my belief is that everlasting most often refers to aionios which is a Greek word that tells us that something shall continue beyond the present age.
No, every lexicon I have checked gives eternal or everlasting as the definition. You are doing what URers have done on this board over and over again: redefine terms to suit your belief.
Consider for a moment of what goes on in many of these UR vs ET threads. The ETers will hurl argumentative insults towards the glorious gospel of God revolving around the Universal Saving power of God in order to gain a nugget of Truth. Essentially the UR is being baited with a rebellious arrogant attitude and gets rewarded with GOLD in the form of the TRUTHful comments that URs provide. Please cease from this. If a ETer wants the Truth don't reward the combative carnal nature with the Gold such that it gets treated as dung. But rather reward the seeker that desires the Truth with such Gold. Stop pandering to the unbeliever as if they will believe. God must FIRST give the heart. If the heart is not there then don't throw the Truth at a decieved heart. Giving the Truth to such a carnal nature is just to give the carnal nature power.
Yep. I have already given up on the URs, and won't waste my time with them anymore. The other thread filled with vile hatred slung by a URer was the last drop. I realized there is nothing I can say that can open their hearts, so I am only casting pearals to the swines. Only God can help them see the truth.
The truth on the Gospel has been presented to the URs and they willingly and knowingly continue to reject it. It is not for me to judge them. One day they will answer to God for their actions, and god will judge them.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 06-21-2010 at 07:57 AM..
What does a post like this actually accomplish? Nothing whatsoever. I could easily say the same thing from the vantage point of ETers, and it would reflect the reality I have seen on this board over and over. Let's see:
Consider for a moment of what goes on in many of these UR vs ET threads. The URers will hurl argumentative insults towards the glorious gospel of God revolving around the wonderful grace of God in Christ, who died to save men from an eternal hell, and toward the true God as he has revealed himself in Scripture. Essentially the ETer is being baited with a rebellious arrogant attitude and gets rewarded with GOLD in the form of the TRUTHful comments that ETers provide. Please cease from this. If a URer wants the Truth don't reward the combative carnal nature with the Gold such that it gets treated as dung. But rather reward the seeker that desires the Truth with such Gold. Stop pandering to the unbeliever as if they will believe. God must FIRST give the heart. If the heart is not there then don't throw the Truth at a deceived heart. Giving the Truth to such a carnal nature is just to give the carnal nature power.
I hope this is understood. We must love our enemies and those that oppose ET but as brothers knowing that they are just deceived and not givin the heart. Once the heart desires then reveal, that is the sign that God has given a new heart.
Exactly.
Quote:
One thing you did make me think of that is worthwhile, though, is that the ET/UR debate dominates this board. I think that should change. I abstained from this board for several months and recently came back on, and lo and behold, guess what threads were dominating? UR vs. ET
Exactly. And it is the same old arguments over and over and over.
Yep. I have already given up on the URs. The other thread filled with vile hatred slung by a URer was the last drop. I realized there is nothing I can say that can open their hearts. Only God can help them.
The truth on the Gospel has been presented to the URs and they willingly and knowingly continue to reject it. It is not for me to judge them. One day they will answer to God for their actions, and god will judge them.
Finn if you are so confident in what you believe is the truth you should have trusted in Him who can open eyes anyway .
I am not sure which poster you are referring to who you claim was vile and hateful , what i have noticed with a lot of your posts is that when you are simply challenged about your own beliefs you resort to remarks about people that are not true,and remarks that are not true when it comes to what those who believe in UR actually believe.
Though it doesn't make it right "you are probably reaping what you are sowing".
Finn if you are so confident in what you believe is the truth you should have trusted in Him who can open eyes anyway .
I have trusted in Him 100%. I have tried to spread the good news as instructed in the Bible, but then I ran into the "cast pearls to the swines" verse, and I realized that is exactly what I do when I talk to people who have clearly expressed that they do not believe in it.
This thread is not about me, so I'll just ignore your remarks about me. I suppose I could say the same thing about you, and all the other URs here.
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