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Old 06-24-2010, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
8,414 posts, read 9,165,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
The basic church organizational structure does not open up the door to questioning and debate very wide in the first place. The internet is great, it has opened up the doors to information that churches do not regularly promote. I was in such a protected environment growing up that I was in high school before I knew that the bible was translated from another language and that there was other bibles than the KJV.

Ask Verna Perry and I'll bet many others have stories that are similar. As long as you "sit and listen" your fine.
It seems your experiences differ from mine. For example, the first Bible I used was the New American Standard. But then again, I was not raised in the Church. I was raised in an atheistic home. I came to the Lord at age 24. I am used to churches that allow discussion and differing POVs from their attendees and members

I am aware of the type of church you refer to. We have one in my area. People call it the "Cult On The Hill".
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,185 posts, read 34,417,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
No offence taken. No need for a discussion, just tell June the truth of your beliefs, it should not be that difficult, really.

So what happens to Gods love for June if she dies not accepting what you say she must do?
I already told her. John 3:16 says it all.
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:24 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,844,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I already told her. John 3:16 says it all.

Since one verse does not say it all, I must take from reading the whole bible that June will be just fine since all will believe and Gods judgment is corrective for those he loves.


God loves June. Thanks clearing up your beliefs.
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:30 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,844,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
It seems your experiences differ from mine. For example, the first Bible I used was the New American Standard. But then again, I was not raised in the Church. I was raised in an atheistic home. I came to the Lord at age 24. I am used to churches that allow discussion and differing POVs from their attendees and members

I am aware of the type of church you refer to. We have one in my area. People call it the "Cult On The Hill".

That is great, what kind of discussion goes on? Will June be instructed in these chuches of what will happen to her if she dies professing to be an atheist? Will June be able to discuss that as an atheist if she dies as one she will not suffer endlessly without being told otherwise?
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:34 AM
 
702 posts, read 833,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Gods love never left and Christs suffering ended.
So God somehow loved Christ and simultaneously punished him. Love and wrath, then, are not mutually exclusive. The reason why Christ's suffering ended was because he, being God incarnate, was the only one who could endure an eternity's worth of suffering in a matter of hours.
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:38 AM
 
702 posts, read 833,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood
What is being proved is that you cannot answer direct questions and try to paint your beliefs as something they are not.

Me, me, me, you, you, you. Me right, you wrong. No offence, but I am not interested in that kind of discussion.
I agree completely. The post you responded to is already showing signs of the typical UR/ET thread degeneration into accusations and derogatory comments. It's probably best to stop responding at a certain point.
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:43 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,844,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jremy View Post
So God somehow loved Christ and simultaneously punished him. Love and wrath, then, are not mutually exclusive. The reason why Christ's suffering ended was because he, being God incarnate, was the only one who could endure an eternity's worth of suffering in a matter of hours.
So, suffering does end.

I always hear eternity means eternity, it never ends, so Jesus incarnate abilities put and end to eternity so that the eternities worth (a measurement) Remember you can't measure something till something gets full, if something pours out endlessly you will never actually measure it.

Well, that settles it, God will stop the suffering and it is not endless. Because Gods love is that great.

Glad we are in agreement.
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:46 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,844,019 times
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Originally Posted by Jremy View Post
I agree completely. The post you responded to is already showing signs of the typical UR/ET thread degeneration into accusations and derogatory comments. It's probably best to stop responding at a certain point.

The truth is that you cannot just come out and say that you believe if June dies an atheist she will suffer endlessly and Gods love will mean nothing to her then, even if after her death she professes Jesus as Lord as philippians states everyone will do.


Do you deny this is what you believe is the correct interpretation of scripture?


If expecting people to answer direct questions and not hide all the facts of their beliefs is derogatory, guilty as charged.
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
8,414 posts, read 9,165,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
That is great, what kind of discussion goes on?
Depends on the questions being asked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Will June be instructed in these chuches of what will happen to her if she dies professing to be an atheist?
yep. No point in sugarcoating the Gospel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Will June be able to discuss that as an atheist if she dies as one she will not suffer endlessly without being told otherwise?
Yep and we'd start with these two sections.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.

Then we would let June ask questions. Life is about choices and the Churches I have been a part of don't hide parts of the Bible, because they say unpleaseant things.

Deut 30:15 says it

See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. This is the choice God gives each of us.
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:56 AM
 
55 posts, read 62,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Since one verse does not say it all, I must take from reading the whole bible that June will be just fine since all will believe and Gods judgment is corrective for those he loves.


God loves June. Thanks clearing up your beliefs.
You are correct in saying God loves June,but if she does not believe in Him she will perish and spend eternity apart from the Lord in hell,so yes John 3:16 hits it right on the head. God does not want this so it is of our choosing where we plan to spend eternity.
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