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Old 06-25-2010, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,434,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
There is no salvation after death, only reconciliation after a time of refining.
This is what UR focuses on. And it is a serious and grave error.

DO NOT invoke Mal 3, which has NOTHING to do with post mortem refinement, and neither does 1 Cor 3....so save us the UR jargon.

Have you got any other scriptrues to support this view?
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Florida
63,043 posts, read 34,328,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
This is completely a false premise. First of all UR, presents focus on the afterlife, or better yet, the in between life and heavenly life, thus confirming such status as purogatory, or other abodes of the dead for that matter. This really gets me, and others alike, is that UR cloaks itself in this secret truth, only by pulling it converts to it through crafty usage of the scriptures and emotionally charged philosophical errors.
Purgatory!!! Yes, that is exactly what it would be. A place of torment for sinners where they are tortured into submission before they can enter heaven.
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,766,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Purgatory!!! Yes, that is exactly what it would be. A place of torment for sinners where they are tortured into submission before they can enter heaven.
I never thought about that before, but you correct. Very interesting...
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,434,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Sciotamicks, you didn't answer my question. Here it is again:

OK. You called my statement that you and others believe, "Nothing is impossible with God except to save all mankind," is an assumption.
Like I said...I never addresed this as a possibility because there is no place in the scriptures that says He is!

Quote:
Is my assumption correct that you believe that, or do you, instead, believe it is indeed possible for God to save all mankind?
Your assumption is based on 1 Tim 2:4-6 where it has nothing to do with your assumption. Your assumption an assumption, and has nothing to do with what I believe, but again, I will repeat it for you.....God said His kingdom will increase, He also said His kingdom is not everyone that has ever lived or will live, in that people are chosen out of the nations, etc.
Your assumption is not Biblical.


Quote:
You quoted me with this: If I'm wrong, please cite a reliable source of UR beliefs saying that it is possible to PLEASE God without faith.


Like I said, I never addressed this. I addressed your poor usage of 1 Tim.

Quote:
Are we even talking about the same post? I didn't even quote 1 Tim 2:4. But since you keep bringing it up, I have a question for you. That verse says that God would have all men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. I've seen many people post on the forum that all men will come unto the knowledge of the truth, and will regret all their mistakes while they are in hell after this realization. Why do people choose which half of this verse to believe, and have no problem believing that ALL men will come to the knowledge of the truth, but refuse to believe that ALL men will be saved?
You directly referred to 1 Tim, even though you didn't use the quoted verse, your assumption was based on it because that is what is implied. You said, God is going to save all mankind. Nowhere in the Bible does it say this, and your usage of it is eisegetical to say the least. Crafty UR is, but around here, and many places elsewhere, this assumption has been scripturally dismantled. And I was only doing it again for the young and seeking Christian lurking this thread.
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,766,552 times
Reputation: 531
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
This is completely a false premise. First of all UR, presents focus on the afterlife, or better yet, the in between life and heavenly life, thus confirming such status as purogatory, or other abodes of the dead for that matter. This really gets me, and others alike, is that UR cloaks itself in this secret truth, only by pulling it converts to it through crafty usage of the scriptures and emotionally charged philosophical errors.



No it doesn't. ET is true to the scriptures...UR makes it up as it goes along and twists warnings and condemnations for lack of faith and belief into some fairy tale "corrective" period post mortem.

Good grief.
So true. Wonderful post I wish I could rep you!
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:22 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,771,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Only if you accept him as your saviour.



Sure it does.

This is where those go who were not saved, and that is what you are saved from.

Relevation 21 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
So much for that sweet cowardly lion. But seriously, the fiery lake of burning sulfur is symbolic, just like the Lamb.
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,434,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
UR says all will be saved through Christ. All will be refined and judged. Some now, the rest in the after life.
Sure UR says it, but the Bible does not.
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,434,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
So much for that sweet cowardly lion. But seriously, the fiery lake of burning sulfur is symbolic, just like the Lamb.
Symbolic of what? I want Biblcal sources.
What about the gnashing of teeth...or the burning flame in Daniel, the worm never dies....or the soul of a sinner dies? Are these all symbolic?
This is complete crazy talk. The Lake of Fire and Brimstone is a real place, it is where the Devil goes, and the false prophet, or are these subject to "correction" as well? LOL This is where UR steps out from the scriptures. It imposes Pagan Greco-philosophy onto what is purely covenantal.

Last edited by sciotamicks; 06-25-2010 at 12:35 PM..
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:26 PM
 
51 posts, read 110,627 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
I am also a non-believer (I mentioned this in an earlier post) and have been fascinated by the answers here. I still can't wrap my head around thinking of this life as nothing more than a wisp! I do not believe in an afterlife - and I know that many of you find that sad and inconceivable - but to me - it just makes my life so much fuller and more interesting! To be honest - I don't think I want to exist for an eternity! I'm fine with ceasing to exist - I see it as a nice sleep at the end of the most wonderful day. However, this is not my point - I'm just rambling and I do apologize!
I have many religious friends and I think there are some of them that think, deep down, I am going to hell. However, I also have many religious friends that - even though they don't think everyone will be saved - do believe that I will be saved because I am a good person. I don't know if they are UR's or ET's as I didn't even know those terms existed until I found C-D! But I would say the majority of my religious friends believe that God knows the good souls from the bad. To be honest, it all makes no difference to me since I don't believe in an after life. I know, I know - open your heart to Jesus, how can you care you won't burn in hell for all eternity etc. I appreciate your concern - and I'd like to think it is genuine concern (sometimes it does sound very threatening - whether you mean it to or not) - but I'm very happy and peaceful in my beliefs. I think every single day is precious. I think life here is the most important thing in the world - well, I mean I guess love is the most important! I don't mean to offend - I just find it hard to believe that anyone would think of life as a wisp or mist - I feel like that belittles this wonderful journey!
Dewdrop,I would say God bless you....how about L'Chaim (To Life) Actually the reason I would like you to know the One who I am persuaded has created the universe & everyone & everything in it is that it is such a blessing here & now.All that aside,what motivated me to post was the good person idea,& how Jesus shone His eternal flashlight on it.Jesus is good,but He won't let people call Him good unless they know why He is good & what good means.I know this is a little rambling,but look at what Jesus said to a "good" young man in Mark 10: The Rich Young Man

17As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

18“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 19You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.”

20“Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”

21Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”


Again Dewdrop, L'chaim....Know that we love you,& that is why we care enough to tell you
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:38 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,771,089 times
Reputation: 264
My responses in red.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Like I said...I never addresed this as a possibility because there is no place in the scriptures that says He is!

What do you mean you didn't address it as a possibility? It was like a multiple choice question.

A - You believe nothing is impossible with God.
B - You believe something is impossible with God - saving all mankind.

A or B? Which is it?


Your assumption is based on 1 Tim 2:4-6 where it has nothing to do with your assumption. Your assumption an assumption, and has nothing to do with what I believe, but again, I will repeat it for you.....God said His kingdom will increase, He also said His kingdom is not everyone that has ever lived or will live, in that people are chosen out of the nations, etc.
Your assumption is not Biblical.

The people who will reign in His kingdom do not equal all the people who are saved from sin and death. It's not the same thing. Your assumption is that if you don't reign with him you go to hell, and that is not biblical.


[/i]

Like I said, I never addressed this. I addressed your poor usage of 1 Tim.

IMO, you didn't address it because you know UR doesn't teach you can PLEASE God without faith, but you're not the one who made that false statement anyway, so I won't ask you to defend it.

You directly referred to 1 Tim, even though you didn't use the quoted verse, your assumption was based on it because that is what is implied. You said, God is going to save all mankind. Nowhere in the Bible does it say this, and your usage of it is eisegetical to say the least. Crafty UR is, but around here, and many places elsewhere, this assumption has been scripturally dismantled. And I was only doing it again for the young and seeking Christian lurking this thread.

Can you scripturally dismantle this?

1 Timothy 3-6:

3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
.
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