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Old 06-25-2010, 03:28 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,773,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Folks suffer a second death. This is not life, but death ...that means no refinement. That is my answer.

God will not save all mankind, because He never said He would.
He just offered salvation for all mankind. That's is it.
The bible says Christ conquers death and the grave. If death remains and is not abolished, this is a lie, and the grave has the victory, contrary to scripture.

Can you quote a verse that says that "God offered salvation?"
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Old 06-25-2010, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Florida
63,186 posts, read 34,417,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
We will all be born again and have no choice in the matter.
No, not according to the Bible. That is a choise every individual needs to make on their own.

PS Don't bother repeating all the UR talking points, because I have heard them all too many times, so save your breath.

No, not everyone will be forced into being born again. Christ says we must make every effort to enter through the narrow gate. WE MUST MAKE EVERY EFFORT, because no one will force you thought it:


23Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"
He said to them, 24"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.'
"But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.'
26"Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.'
27"But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!' 28"There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. 30Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last."
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Old 06-25-2010, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,440,195 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
The bible says Christ conquers death and the grave. If death remains and is not abolished, this is a lie, and the grave has the victory, contrary to scripture.
Christ said He did those solely for those in Him.

Quote:
Can you quote a verse that says that "God offered salvation?"
Sure:

Eph 5:2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified

Would you like more?

We, us, them are those who put their faith in Him.
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Old 06-25-2010, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,440,195 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
"What's born of the flesh is flesh. What's born of the spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I say unto you, you must be born again."
How does this prove your point? If it does anything, it proves mine.
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Old 06-25-2010, 03:53 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,773,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No, not according to the Bible. That is a choise every individual needs to make on their own.

PS Don't bother repeating all the UR talking points, because I have heard them all too many times, so save your breath.

No, not everyone will be forced into being born again. Christ says we must make every effort to enter through the narrow gate. WE MUST MAKE EVERY EFFORT, because no one will force you thought it:


23Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"
He said to them, 24"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.'
"But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.'
26"Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.'
27"But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!' 28"There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. 30Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last."
It's sad that you think God won't "force" people to be born again, but He'll force them to be set on fire forever. That doctrine is nothing more than fables and evil imaginations.
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Old 06-25-2010, 03:56 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,773,110 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Christ said He did those solely for those in Him.



Sure:

Eph 5:2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified

Would you like more?

We, us, them are those who put their faith in Him.
I'm fairly certain that you know as well as I do, that the word "offering" in those verses speak of Christ's body on the cross, and have absolutely nothing to do with people accepting a deal. That's pretty sad that you resorted to that, IMO.
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Old 06-25-2010, 04:16 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,773,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post

Also called "particular redemption" or "definite atonement", the doctrine of limited atonement asserts that Jesus' substitutionary atonement was definite and certain in its design and accomplishment. This implies that only the sins of the elect were atoned for by Jesus' death. Calvinists do not believe, however, that the atonement is limited in its value or power (in other words, God could have elected everyone and used it to atone for them all), but rather that the atonement is limited in the sense that it is designed for some and not all.
Hence, Calvinists hold that the atonement is sufficient for all and efficient for the elect.

You lack much in your understanding of the doctrine.
What you said is exactly what I said. Read the part in red above. The atonement was "designed" for some, which means Christ died for some. It's really sad that Calvinists believe in that TULIP thingy, and have it exactly right except for the heresy of limited atonement.
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Old 06-25-2010, 04:21 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,773,110 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
How does this prove your point? If it does anything, it proves mine.
How does it prove yours? Nothing in that passage says anything about being rescued from hell. It's talking about those who will reign with him. The ones born of the Spirit will reign with him for an age. The others will be reconciled to God later, in due time, in His time, according to His plan. It's all right there in the bible!
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Old 06-25-2010, 04:34 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,475,103 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
The bible says Christ conquers death and the grave. If death remains and is not abolished, this is a lie, and the grave has the victory, contrary to scripture.

Can you quote a verse that says that "God offered salvation?"
Death is abolished in the end, but it is not what you think it is.

Being dead is being dead. Can the dead talk? Can the dead walk? Can the dead love? Can the dead feel anything, say anything, do anything?

What is the point past death? Nothing. They ARE dead.

But, IN and THROUGH Christ Jesus we LIVE.

Not dead. When everyone who will ever live is ALIVE, there will be no more death. It will have been conquered.

My question to you is:

Are you ALIVE, or are you DEAD??

Death being abolished means noone will die. IOW, everyone at that point will not see death, because there will be no more death. Everlasting life.

It does not mean everyone who HAS died, will live. Only the person who believes the soul is immortal believes this, which also explains why some believe in ET. I personally do not subscribe to this teaching. I believe the dead are dead. Period. "let the dead bury the dead"-Jesus. They are dead.
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,440,195 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
I'm fairly certain that you know as well as I do, that the word "offering" in those verses speak of Christ's body on the cross, and have absolutely nothing to do with people accepting a deal. That's pretty sad that you resorted to that, IMO.
What is sad is the quot above...His offering of His body...have you any clue as to what that fulfilled? THE SIN OFFERING.

But then again, it appears that your statement is remedial, as Christ, WAS GOD IN THE FLESH. That offering, perfected, sanctifies, those who are sanctified....ie...those who confess their belief in Him.

This is Theology 101

Are you serious? I have seen some spins, but this one really takes the cake.
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