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Old 06-25-2010, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,434,540 times
Reputation: 420

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
What you said is exactly what I said. Read the part in red above. The atonement was "designed" for some, which means Christ died for some. It's really sad that Calvinists believe in that TULIP thingy, and have it exactly right except for the heresy of limited atonement.
Read it again.
The Atonement is sufficient for all, and efficient for the elect.
Is it really this hard?
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:05 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 10,012,239 times
Reputation: 58210
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Death is abolished in the end, but it is not what you think it is.

Being dead is being dead. Can the dead talk? Can the dead walk? Can the dead love? Can the dead feel anything, say anything, do anything?

What is the point past death? Nothing. They ARE dead.

But, IN and THROUGH Christ Jesus we LIVE.

Not dead. When everyone who will ever live is ALIVE, there will be no more death. It will have been conquered.

My question to you is:

Are you ALIVE, or are you DEAD??

Death being abolished means noone will die. IOW, everyone at that point will not see death, because there will be no more death. Everlasting life.

It does not mean everyone who HAS died, will live. Only the person who believes the soul is immortal believes this, which also explains why some believe in ET. I personally do not subscribe to this teaching. I believe the dead are dead. Period. "let the dead bury the dead"-Jesus. They are dead.
Why do you believe this Hot? It's such a sad belief. And it also makes absolutely no sense. Are you telling me all of the dead that will be raised for judgment are going to be judged and then made dead again? Excuse me for saying so......but......hogwash. Like I said, it makes no sense. Where in scripture does it teach annihilation? Death will be done away with, and every single soul will live in the afterlife that lived in this one. EVERYONE.
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,434,540 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
How does it prove yours? Nothing in that passage says anything about being rescued from hell. It's talking about those who will reign with him. The ones born of the Spirit will reign with him for an age. The others will be reconciled to God later, in due time, in His time, according to His plan. It's all right there in the bible!
For an age? Listen BHFT, you confess Christ is God in the flesh, rose from the dead, and is your saviour, you are saved from Hell. This is everywhere among the scriptures. You confess in Christ, your spirit is born again, the old man sown and the new man raised with Christ.

Death is conquered...past tense...this was done at the cross, and at the parousia it is completed for those ONLY who believe - Israel - Jew and Gentile. Without Christ, you die, not only of the spirit, but of the body soul and spirit. All of it. Without Him, you are already dead.
In this life, and in the next.

No more 2nd chance. That was given to you in this life.
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:17 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,237 posts, read 654,108 times
Reputation: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Read it again.
The Atonement is sufficient for all, and efficient for the elect.
Is it really this hard?
To me it is hard to understand what you are actually saying when you use this phrase ...........How is Christs sacrifice sufficient for those that have never been given the opportunity to confess Jesus as lord before physical death e.g aborted babies, children who are not taught the gospel, african, chinese, korean, islamic, native american etc peoples who never had a missionary visit them?
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:54 PM
 
7,812 posts, read 10,704,138 times
Reputation: 3443
Quote:
Originally Posted by selinabetrue View Post

there is no way to peace. peace is the way.

June, in getting lost amid the frey of reading through these posts, has decided to simply give up, and read the first three chapters of the gospel of John, instead.

What the heck. There's got to be more than just the ongoing....ongoing....on going....and besides, what more can she say?


Take gentle debating care.
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:55 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,237 posts, read 654,108 times
Reputation: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
For an age? Listen BHFT, you confess Christ is God in the flesh, rose from the dead, and is your saviour, you are saved from Hell. This is everywhere among the scriptures. You confess in Christ, your spirit is born again, the old man sown and the new man raised with Christ.

Death is conquered...past tense...this was done at the cross, and at the parousia it is completed for those ONLY who believe - Israel - Jew and Gentile. Without Christ, you die, not only of the spirit, but of the body soul and spirit. All of it. Without Him, you are already dead.
In this life, and in the next.

No more 2nd chance. That was given to you in this life.
Sciotamicks (and also HotinAZ )

This may be another thread but what you seem to be describing is not ET it is annihilation, except when you say that Jesus saved the believer from "hell" (is that hell death or a lake of fire eternal torment -- dead people do not feel torment) and also you seem to not think that those who physically die without believing in Christ and have not been born again will have any sort of judgment for their deeds committed -- and no resurrection for them ....... Is this correct?

While I do believe in UR (that is my personal belief) I am not against annihilation, however I just do not see that "the end" is annihilation when I believe what scriptures say that there is judgment for deeds prophecied for everyone and resurrection prophecied for everyone........ What I am against is the belief of conscious eternal torment in a lake of fire hell for all unbelievers (many of whom never had the opportunity to "accept Jesus as Lord") while believers "christians" get a free pass into "heaven"
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Old 06-25-2010, 06:01 PM
 
5,499 posts, read 4,573,974 times
Reputation: 5149
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
June, in getting lost amid the frey of reading through these posts, has decided to simply give up, and read the first three chapters of the gospel of John, instead.

What the heck. There's got to be more than just the ongoing....ongoing....on going....and besides, what more can she say?


Take gentle debating care.
Make it four...if not all...
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Old 06-25-2010, 06:16 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,471,568 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Why do you believe this Hot? It's such a sad belief. And it also makes absolutely no sense. Are you telling me all of the dead that will be raised for judgment are going to be judged and then made dead again? Excuse me for saying so......but......hogwash. Like I said, it makes no sense. Where in scripture does it teach annihilation? Death will be done away with, and every single soul will live in the afterlife that lived in this one. EVERYONE.

Sad, yes. Contempt or repulsed by it is more the correct word for it, as it says in Isaiah 66:24, Daniel 12:2.

Yes, everyone shall be judged.

With Christ or without. Without means the fire will totally destroy the unrepentant wicked who have died without the precious saving grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. IOW, the debt remains, unpaid. Get it?

You may say hogwash all you care to, but scripture lines up with scripture. And DESTROY means to TOTALLY DESTROY.



You can believe what you want DOTL, but I shall stick to the plain meaning of scripture.

Do you see Sodom? Gomorrah? Babylon? They are gone, never again to be rebuilt. They are destroyed.

The only thing that will be left for the unrepentant wicked is their ashes, which shall be removed from the presence of the Lamb.

2 Peter 2:6
and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example TO THOSE who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

Get it?

Remember DOTL, on that day for which you were so named?

Malachi 4:1-3
For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze," says the LORD of hosts, "so that it will leave them neither root nor branch."

Nothing is left. Just ashes.

"But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall.

You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing," says the LORD of hosts.
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Old 06-25-2010, 06:18 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,237 posts, read 654,108 times
Reputation: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
June, in getting lost amid the frey of reading through these posts, has decided to simply give up, and read the first three chapters of the gospel of John, instead.

What the heck. There's got to be more than just the ongoing....ongoing....on going....and besides, what more can she say?


Take gentle debating care.
I think I'll be joining you June ......... except my reading will be 1 Cor 13

I'll just say that it seems to me it is a case of everyone thinking what they believe is "the truth" and needing to defend that truth ..... in times past I have tried to listen to what everyone is saying and I still try to understand what people are saying but to a certain degree things tend to merge into confusion "us" vs "them" and in the end I place my trust in God and love and in HIS faithfulness, and will keep on keeping on, I have actually learned a lot on this forum, in amongst all the confusion and debates and hostility and have seen love and support and unity as well .........
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Old 06-25-2010, 06:21 PM
 
7,812 posts, read 10,704,138 times
Reputation: 3443
Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
Make it four...if not all...
Let's not push our luck, here. As someone who can't even get past the first line, June can't exactly say there's a whole lotta hope going down here!
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