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Old 06-28-2010, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,085 posts, read 34,359,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
Besides, June has the feeling that even if she did somehow decide to become a believer, "there would be hell to pay" in the event she chose the "wrong side" based on what she's been reading lately. Ya know?
If you accept Christ there is no hell to pay. However, those who do not accept Him, and simply hope the UR is right, then there is hell to pay if UR is wrong.

The URs don't think about the consequence of them being wrong. They say they are born again believers, and if that is true, then they themselves would be saved, but those who believe their message and choose the automatic post mortem salvation, as opposed to giving their lives to Christ while living, will be doomed to hell because they believed a false message.

If Christians are wrong and there is no hell, then you gave your life to Christ and gained peace and happiness on earth, and it will continue after death whether or not hell exists.
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
It's a parable, Finn.
Yes, Jesus is saying the narrow gate is Him. Salvation is through Him only, so he is telling people to ENTER THOUGH THE NARROW GATE. So, there is indeed something you need to do, you need to enter though the narrow gate. I posted this in reply to your accusation that whoever says they gave their lives to the Lord are boasting. Why is there some kind of accusation or judgement in every post you make?
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
No. I was talking about anyone who is self-righteous,so if you felt convicted by it, it wasn't me doing the convicting.
So, you thought you'd just throw it in knowing it did not relate to the topic or anyone involved in the discussion? Whatever you say.....
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:31 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,173,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Doing this backwards has led to the misunderstandings and assassinations of God's character.
Like this op...

How do I wrap my brain around a murdering Christian God?
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:31 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,771,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, Jesus is saying the narrow gate is Him. Salvation is through Him only, so he is telling people to ENTER THOUGH THE NARROW GATE. So, there is indeed something you need to do, you need to enter though the narrow gate. I posted this in reply to your accusation that whoever says they gave their lives to the Lord are boasting. Why is there some kind of accusation or judgement in every post you make?
The parable says to "enter in" and tells of two gates you can choose to enter - not two destinations. Making hell out of this verse is speculation.

Why not assume that God is love when reading this, and then try to figure out what it means? Look at the verse right before that one, "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

Do you think Jesus is telling us to be nice to people if we want them to be nice to us, knowing that God is going to burn people in fire forever, even though God most certainly wouldn't want anyone to burn Him forever if they were capable? Come on, Finn! This one commandment (which is not a parable or symbolism) speaks volumes! God wants us to treat Him like He wants to be treated, too, so why would He treat us in a way that He would not want to be treated? This is elementary stuff, but misinterpretations through the years have ruined the simple message of God's love.

As for your comments:
"I posted this in reply to your accusation that whoever says they gave their lives to the Lord are boasting."
Your reading of my posts was a misinterpretation on your part. I said, "One can boast, "Look what I DID!" I did not say they are boasting.
Why is there some kind of accusation or judgement in every post you make?
This is not true. And this statement is not an accusation, either. It's just a fact.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:38 PM
 
7,813 posts, read 10,707,854 times
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Default Can ANYONE out there answer this one for the June???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post

The URs don't think about the consequence of them being wrong. They say they are born again believers, and if that is true, then they themselves would be saved, but those who believe their message and choose the automatic post mortem salvation, as opposed to giving their lives to Christ while living, will be doomed to hell because they believed a false message.
Why is this so contrary to "Christianity" in so many people's minds? It tends to make equal sense to June as much as the "ET camp." If an individual has accepted Christ into their lives, and is transformed, spiritually 'reborn' by that, such that to their way of thinking and experiencing their lives, then why in the world would they NOT be "giving their lives to Christ" in the aftermath of having been "saved?"

~June just doesn't get the big, huge discrepancy except across denominational lines. And it is precisely that big, huge denominational discrepency that tends to make her wonder whether it isn't somehow discrediting both sides in the matter.

Granted, June can understand that both sides can't be "right. If the matter comes down to one where someone "automatically" goes to heaven, versus entre into heaven being earned, then June has a question. --Which also relates back to original point in the OP:

If a UR adherent truly has accepted Christ, has been "born again" and thereby "saved" then it seems to June that their actions post 'being born again' would somehow follow suit, such that they would have an equal chance at gaining admittance into heaven as the adherent of ET would. If being born again is tantamount to a new life in Christ, and a truly transformative experience as regards how one lives their life in this world, then why would the UR adherent NOT have just as much a likelihood of gaining admittance to heaven as someone who adheres to ET?

~Is June even wording the question correctly? She doesn't mean to confuse, but it makes sense in her mind, vis-a-vis on an intellectual, practical, and even spiritual level...

Many thanks in advance to whomever can clarify/make sense out of this one for June!


Take gentle care.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Florida
63,085 posts, read 34,359,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
The parable says to "enter in" and tells of two gates you can choose to enter - not two destinations. Making hell out of this verse is speculation.
You are the one talking about hell, while I am talking about the narrow gate.
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:12 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,173,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
~Is June even wording the question correctly? She doesn't mean to confuse, but it makes sense in her mind, vis-a-vis on an intellectual, practical, and even spiritual level...

Many thanks in advance to whomever can clarify/make sense out of this one for June!


Take gentle care.
June,

What looks logical\compassionate is a lie by Satan. It's simply that there are many versions of what some call "2nd chance beyond life". UR is just one such version. UR (and its contemporaries) offer what God does not....salvation for those who die as an unbeliever.

Do some reasearch on the 2 types of justification:

Objective ... Christ dies for entire world
Subjective ... the means by which God views humans on a personal level (one on one) whether or not one is just\holy to enter into heaven. Reject justification a subjective basis while living..then a person will not \ can not be allowed into heaven beyond death.



John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."


Romans 2:8
"But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger."


John 12:48
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Florida
63,085 posts, read 34,359,223 times
Reputation: 10481
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
If a UR adherent truly has accepted Christ, has been "born again" and thereby "saved" then it seems to June that their actions post 'being born again' would somehow follow suit, such that they would have an equal chance at gaining admittance into heaven as the adherent of ET would. If being born again is tantamount to a new life in Christ, and a truly transformative experience as regards how one lives their life in this world, then why would the UR adherent NOT have just as much a likelihood of gaining admittance to heaven as someone who adheres to ET?
If they accepted Christ before becoming UR, as they say they have, then they are saved. I never said they aren't, since I never question anyone's faith. I only question the message they spread after their conversion to UR. ANYONE who accepts Christ while living is saved, UR or not. That's what I mean that they (the URs who have accepted Christ) are saved, and going to heaven. I am talking about those who they preach to, who have NOT accepted Christ. If an unbeliever hears and believes the UR message that they are going to be saved after their deaths, then they are unlikely to accept Christ into their lives while living, and they will end up in hell. I have NEVER heard of anyone going straight from being an unbeliever to being a practising UR. NEVER. There are only those unbelievers who hear the UR message, and then shrug, and say "sounds like I'm good to go to heaven". This means that if the UR message is wrong, as it is IMO, then those people will go to hell because they were led to believe there is no need to accept Christ as their saviour. See what I mean? And that is the reason why Christians here keep repeating the message of John 3:16, which is the cornerstone of Christianity and the Bible. It is mind-boggling that any born again Christian would choose to preach UR, when there is overwhelming evidence against it, but apparently there are such people. If they themselves have accepted Christ, then why are they telling others it is not necessary???

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 06-28-2010 at 01:29 PM..
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:19 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,771,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
June,

What looks logical\compassionate is a lie by Satan. It's simply that there are many versions of what some call "2nd chance beyond life". UR is just one such version. UR (and its contemporaries) offer what God does not....salvation for those who die as an unbeliever.
UR does not teach "chance" or "offers," as if someone has to gamble with or make a deal for their salvation.

While traditional Christianity teaches you have a "chance" to "accept Jesus' offer," UR teaches that Jesus Christ IS the Savior of the whole world, as proclaimed in scripture.
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