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Old 06-29-2010, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,304 posts, read 34,497,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
There are many reasons that God sent his disciples to spread the word/good news, and that we are to tell people about the truth. One is that if we believe in Him we can know Him, and God has special blessings for believers such as hope, peace, love, joy, patience, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self control.
Special blessings? So, Jesus told believers to spread the message, because he wanted to give them special blessings, not so that those who hear and believe will be saved? Nothing to do with John 3:16?? Okey dokey.

Special blessings are the fruit of salvation and faith in Christ. Salvation is the price, and special blessings are simply the by-products of it, or the icing on the cake if you will. Christ did not come here just to bring us the icing, he came here to bring the CAKE, and everything on it.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:24 AM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,880,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
While I think it does speak volumes, I'm still a little confused as to how this doesn't line up with UR. I think we (UR's and ETers) ARE of one heart and mind as Christians who believe in and worship Jesus Christ as Lord. Anything beyond that is, well, debatable. I don't think any of us have it exactly right and anyone who says they do is just wrong. I can understand why June doesn't understand all the debating, though. I'll wait for your response when you have time.
I'm not June, but like her, I dont understand all the debating, at least when it comes from the Universal Soldier side. If everyone is going to heaven why do you care what anyone, including ET, thinks about anything? After all, he's going to go to heaven too and so is everyone you think he is "misleading" with his false doctrine of ET.

It just sort of wrecks my head trying to figure out why you even care what ET thinks or what he does. You and ET and everyone else for that matter are 100% equal and will be for all eternity. So why even care what ET believes or what he does?

If you really believe everyone gets to heaven shouldn't you just be happy all the time and rejoicing instead of sowing discord with ET when you are 100% certain he is going to share eternity with you in Heaven anyway?

Sorry but I really don't get what all the fuss is about from the Universal Soldier people. And a lot of you (I don't mean you Ilene, but some of the others) just strike me as very very unhappy people. Does anyone else get that vibe?
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,446,688 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
I'm not June, but like her, I dont understand all the debating, at least when it comes from the Universal Soldier side. If everyone is going to heaven why do you care what anyone, including ET, thinks about anything? After all, he's going to go to heaven too and so is everyone you think he is "misleading" with his false doctrine of ET.

It just sort of wrecks my head trying to figure out why you even care what ET thinks or what he does. You and ET and everyone else for that matter are 100% equal and will be for all eternity. So why even care what ET believes or what he does?

If you really believe everyone gets to heaven shouldn't you just be happy all the time and rejoicing instead of sowing discord with ET when you are 100% certain he is going to share eternity with you in Heaven anyway?

Sorry but I really don't get what all the fuss is about from the Universal Soldier people. And a lot of you (I don't mean you Ilene, but some of the others) just strike me as very very unhappy people. Does anyone else get that vibe?
Another well said post....and to top it off...what is the point of even spreading the gospel? We are all saved! Let's party!

Isn't that what Paul preached?
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:36 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 10,031,626 times
Reputation: 58210
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
I'm not June, but like her, I dont understand all the debating, at least when it comes from the Universal Soldier side. If everyone is going to heaven why do you care what anyone, including ET, thinks about anything? After all, he's going to go to heaven too and so is everyone you think he is "misleading" with his false doctrine of ET.

It just sort of wrecks my head trying to figure out why you even care what ET thinks or what he does. You and ET and everyone else for that matter are 100% equal and will be for all eternity. So why even care what ET believes or what he does?

If you really believe everyone gets to heaven shouldn't you just be happy all the time and rejoicing instead of sowing discord with ET when you are 100% certain he is going to share eternity with you in Heaven anyway?

Sorry but I really don't get what all the fuss is about from the Universal Soldier people. And a lot of you (I don't mean you Ilene, but some of the others) just strike me as very very unhappy people. Does anyone else get that vibe?
I care just as much now as I did as an ETer....nothing about salvation through Jesus Christ has changed and, although you've been told this before, there is a price to be paid for not believing or receiving Christ. UR's do believe that there will be punishment for unbelievers and we don't want anyone to suffer. There is still just as much need to preach the gospel from the UR side as the ET camp thinks they have to do.

The need for the debate is because ET is wrong and fear-based and it draws NO ONE to Christ. Understand? I don't see this unhappiness that you are talking about.....the UR people are filled with joy knowing that God has a plan for EVERYONE and that no one will be lost. You see debating.....and that is not a reflection of how one feels about Christ's sacrifice for everyone and that they are happy people.

The ETer's are guilty of name calling and judgmentalism even more so than UR's imo. You see what you want to see.

Edit to add: I forgot to mention that the debate is from the ET side because they think universalism is heresy. UR's are here simply to enlighten and spread the good news of Christ AND the good news that His work on the cross was for everyone, not just some. The minute a UR speaks up is the minute an ETer is jumping on it like flies on stink.

Last edited by Ilene Wright; 06-29-2010 at 11:44 AM..
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:39 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 10,031,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Another well said post....and to top it off...what is the point of even spreading the gospel? We are all saved! Let's party!

Isn't that what Paul preached?
I used this same argument as an ETer.......that's what you do when you don't understand Universalism. See my post above.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:45 AM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,880,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
I care just as much now as I did as an ETer....nothing about salvation through Jesus Christ has changed and, although you've been told this before, there is a price to be paid for not believing or receiving Christ. UR's do believe that there will be punishment for unbelievers and we don't want anyone to suffer. There is still just as much need to preach the gospel from the UR side as the ET camp thinks they have to do.

The need for the debate is because ET is wrong and fear-based and it draws NO ONE to Christ. Understand? I don't see this unhappiness that you are talking about.....the UR people are filled with joy knowing that God has a plan for EVERYONE and that no one will be lost. You see debating.....and that is not a reflection of how one feels about Christ's sacrifice for everyone and that they are happy people.

The ETer's are guilty of name calling and judgmentalism even more so than UR's imo. You see what you want to see.
So basically it sounds like you believe in the doctrine of purgatory but not the doctrine of hell. Got it.

Do you really think the notion of punishment (even if only "temporary"--whatever you mean by that) is "love-based" as opposed to "fear-based"?

As regards the unhappiness I see -- I should have been clearer. The Universal Soldiers claim to be all about love and joy, accusing ET of being "fear based" blah blah blah...and you would think that, as people who proclaim a "loved based" religion that they feel draws people to Jesus Christ, their behavior and attitude would be more loving and joyful than those like ET who follow a "fear-based" belief system. And given the oceanic difference between the two doctrines, that these differences in behavior between Universal Soldier and ET would be quite stark.

Anyway that's what I think but I'm just a Roman Catholic who finds this whole subforum to be an object lesson in "private interpretation gone haywire."

"You see what you want to see" -- right back at ya.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,446,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
I used this same argument as an ETer.......that's what you do when you don't understand Universalism. See my post above.
I understand Universalism very well, and the lie boils down to one thing Ilene, and that is what is the purpose of the Preserverance of the Saints?

One of the most important doctrines of Christianity, and UR contradicts it.
If everyone is granted eternal life eventually, then why preach?
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:57 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 10,031,626 times
Reputation: 58210
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
So basically it sounds like you believe in the doctrine of purgatory but not the doctrine of hell. Got it.

Do you really think the notion of punishment (even if only "temporary"--whatever you mean by that) is "love-based" as opposed to "fear-based"?

As regards the unhappiness I see -- I should have been clearer. The Universal Soldiers claim to be all about love and joy, accusing ET of being "fear based" blah blah blah...and you would think that, as people who proclaim a "loved based" religion that they feel draws people to Jesus Christ, their behavior and attitude would be more loving and joyful than those like ET who follow a "fear-based" belief system. And given the oceanic difference between the two doctrines, that these differences in behavior between Universal Soldier and ET would be quite stark.

Anyway that's what I think but I'm just a Roman Catholic who finds this whole subforum to be an object lesson in "private interpretation gone haywire."

"You see what you want to see" -- right back at ya.
NO....YOU believe in purgatory as a Catholic, not me. I've heard purgatory and the UR beliefs compared before but as I understand purgatory it's a waiting period.....not a time of "refining" which is what will happen with unbelievers. We don't really know what God's "spiritual fire" entails so it's hard to say just how much "suffering" there will be. I believe it's symbolism and does not represent actual fire. The point is that the separation alone from God will be painful for those who must be "refined" in order to be in God's presence. I believe with all my heart that when we die we automatically become "believers", and that we will have an enormous desire to be with the Lord. Separation will be very painful imo.

Don't you ever question the ET belief? I mean, come on!! Even as an ETer I didn't believe it!! It was what I was taught, not what I ever truly believed. And the comment about seeing what you want to see was a generalized statement....not directed at you.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:07 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,850,921 times
Reputation: 644
Some of you will just have to take up your objection with Gods word.

Why do we preach, well beyond the fact that Good news is something people naturally share with one another.

We have this.


1C 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.



It pleases God.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:11 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,880,056 times
Reputation: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
NO....YOU believe in purgatory as a Catholic, not me. I've heard purgatory and the UR beliefs compared before but as I understand purgatory it's a waiting period.....not a time of "refining" which is what will happen with unbelievers. We don't really know what God's "spiritual fire" entails so it's hard to say just how much "suffering" there will be. I believe it's symbolism and does not represent actual fire. The point is that the separation alone from God will be painful for those who must be "refined" in order to be in God's presence. I believe with all my heart that when we die we automatically become "believers", and that we will have an enormous desire to be with the Lord. Separation will be very painful imo.

Don't you ever question the ET belief? I mean, come on!! Even as an ETer I didn't believe it!! It was what I was taught, not what I ever truly believed. And the comment about seeing what you want to see was a generalized statement....not directed at you.
Sure I have. Catholicism is not a religion where you "check your brain at the door." But that willingness to question this doctrine, as well as many others, hasn't turned me into a Universal Soldier.

As regards the comment "you want to see"--apology accepted. Please accept my apologies for the "back at ya" retort.

Moreover, your understanding of Purgatory is incorrect.

I remain ET and proud.
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