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Old 06-29-2010, 03:18 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,772,538 times
Reputation: 264

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BHFT in red.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
You seem to get a lot of your ideas about Christianity from the culture of postwar American Evangelical Protestantism. Your understanding of the richness and complexity of Christian Tradition, which goes back 2000 years, appears to be quite shallow.

Wow. You gleened all that from the couple of posts I wrote to you?


We don't tend to "push" it on people like it's a form of pop psychology or a political viewpoint.

If you think I'm a "bad Christian" because I don't go around saying "Aren't you worried about going to hell?" to ever person I meet--well, What can I say?

I didn't say you were a bad Christian. For the most part, that is the norm in mainstream Christianity, but why? If someone REALLY believes that a family member, co-worker, neighbor, or even stranger is in danger of being SET ON FIRE for ETERNITY and they don't feel a need to warn them, there has to be a reason, and I don't buy that getting tired of telling them is a good reason.

I agree with you that it's senseless to run around warning everyone, and it's not even in the bible to do so. But I believe the reason it's not in the bible is because a literal hell is a falsehood. The lake of fire is symbolic. The reason I think it's a falsehood is because God is love. He told us to love our enemies. He told us to turn the other cheek. He told us to love our neighbor as ourselves. He told us he will conquer death and the grave. Love never fails. "Jesus is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." "God will have all men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth." I could go on and on.

The verses that seem to look like Jesus talks about setting people on fire are parables. They are symbolic of spiritual things. We are supposed to let the Holy Spirit guide us into all truth, not just swallow the doctrines of men as truth without seeking God and believing in His just and holy character.


Blessings to you also.
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,438,367 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
ALL will be refined...
THERE IT IS AGAIN....THE ALL WILL BE REFINED THEOLOGY BTW - For the readers of the forum, this refinement is only APPLICABLE TO THE TRIBE OF LEVI - This is realized in the early Christian church as who Christians are, priests and kings, like those who believe in Christ - We are all of this Tribe - OT type shadow application here.

So why do the saints...have to be saints...and why should the wicked, become saints? For what purpose, if they will be refined anyway?

We are all saved...no need to regenerate...ALL WILL BE REFINED

WE ARE ALL REGENERATED, SO NO NEED FOR THE GOSPEL
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:27 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,877,931 times
Reputation: 642
You seem to get a lot of your ideas about Christianity from the culture of postwar American Evangelical Protestantism. Your understanding of the richness and complexity of Christian Tradition, which goes back 2000 years, appears to be quite shallow.

Wow. You gleened all that from the couple of posts I wrote to you?

Point taken -- apologies. I was out of line. I was using you as a "lightning-rod" for all the weirdness I see from some of these Universal Soldiers. I don't normally post about this topic and my head is a little bit wrecked. At any rate, it is not a justification--that was totally unfair of me.

As I stated in a previous post--you people are all over the map. Some seem really close to Christian Orthodoxy and others practice witchcraft and use the Bible like a self-help book without accepting it as the inspired Word of God. Many are viciously antisemitic. And there are all kinds of gradations in-between.

I am not sure where you stand, but you seem to be one of the more sensible ones. In this respect, you worry me more than the others because you give credibility to these very dangerous ideas. If you understood how dangerous they were you would probably stop.

I think it's best to leave it at that.

Blessings
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:27 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,772,538 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
WE ARE ALL REGENERATED, SO NO NEED FOR THE GOSPEL
If the huge majority of all mankind is doomed to hell, what is the need for the "good news?" Do you believe it's only good news for the elect/chosen?
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:30 PM
 
5,807 posts, read 4,793,554 times
Reputation: 4303
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
THERE IT IS AGAIN....THE ALL WILL BE REFINED THEOLOGY BTW - For the readers of the forum, this refinement is only APPLICABLE TO THE TRIBE OF LEVI - This is realized in the early Christian church as who Christians are, priests and kings, like those who believe in Christ - We are all of this Tribe - OT type shadow application here.

So why do the saints...have to be saints...and why should the wicked, become saints? For what purpose, if they will be refined anyway?

We are all saved...no need to regenerate...ALL WILL BE REFINED

WE ARE ALL REGENERATED, SO NO NEED FOR THE GOSPEL

Why would there be no need for the gospel (good news) if all are being refined?

Think about what you just said.

So.... if a group of people are drowning and a lifeguard saves them all, would there have been need of a lifeguard? Oh wait...only if some of them were to drown?

What you are saying makes no sense to me.
You see a very limited view of God's plan, it seems to me.
Do you honestly think that there will be one iota, one shred of darkness that God will not overcome? I have absolute faith that LOVE CONQUERS ALL, brother. You should too, I guarantee it will change your life for the better.

peace,
sparrow
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:35 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,772,538 times
Reputation: 264
BHFT in red
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
You seem to get a lot of your ideas about Christianity from the culture of postwar American Evangelical Protestantism. Your understanding of the richness and complexity of Christian Tradition, which goes back 2000 years, appears to be quite shallow.

Wow. You gleened all that from the couple of posts I wrote to you?

Point take -- apologies. I was out of line. I was using you as a "lightning-rod" for all the weirdness I see from some of these Universal Soldiers. I don't normally post about this topic and my head is a little bit wrecked. At any rate, it is not a justification--that was totally unfair of me.

Apology accepted.

As I stated in a previous post--you people are all over the map. Some seem really close to Christian Orthodoxy and others practice witchcraft and use the Bible like a self-help book without accepting it as the inspired Word of God. Many are viciously antisemitic. And there are all kinds of gradations in-between.

I am not sure where you stand, but you seem to be one of the more sensible ones. In this respect, you worry me more than the others because you give credibility to these very dangerous ideas. If you understood how dangerous they were you would probably stop.

Uh - thanks? I have no idea where you get the basis of these statements. I've only been on the forum for a few months and haven't seen anything like what you described. However, there are weird people with weird ideas everything, which includes fundamentalists, Catholics, and I'm sure UR believers, too. Please keep in mind that UR is NOT a denomination. We might seem "all over the map" because we are from all different denominations or no denomination. There are Catholic URs on this forum. I'm a Baptist. There are many different beliefs about certain topics, but the common thread in UR is that we believe in God's ultimate restoration/redemption/reconciliation/salvation of all mankind.

I think it's best to leave it at that.

Blessings
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,438,367 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
If the huge majority of all mankind is doomed to hell, what is the need for the "good news?" Do you believe it's only good news for the elect/chosen?
Isn't this all up to God, we are to proclaim the news, the rest is His job.
He said He elects, He said He chooses, He said, He draws.
You and I are to be obedient, and plant the seeds of His kingdom.
IT"S CALLED TAKING IT ALL ON FAITH.

Some things are just better left to Him.
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:39 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,772,538 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Isn't this all up to God, we are to proclaim the news, the rest is His job.
He said He elects, He said He chooses, He said, He draws.
You and I are to be obedient, and plant the seeds of His kingdom.
IT"S CALLED TAKING IT ALL ON FAITH.

Some things are just better left to Him.
Wow! I 100% agree with that! I think He can do a much better job of deciding who he loves and wants to save than we could!
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,438,367 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Why would there be no need for the gospel (good news) if all are being refined?

Think about what you just said.
I have...now watch what you wrote below....

Quote:
So.... if a group of people are drowning and a lifeguard saves them all, would there have been need of a lifeguard? Oh wait...only if some of them were to drown?
This is exactly my point. Mankind is already dead, according to Christ, but believing in Him, you are saved from being drowned, something you were destined to before Christ, and something you have without Christ in your life. It takes having Christ, being selected and regenerated, from drowning.

Paul said...in your words...we are all destined to drown, and are without excuse for believing in Christ, because they (wicked) are still drowning after the debt was paid, but the good news, is to tell people thatthey CAN BE SAVED FROM DROWNING...NOT ARE SAVED...But CAN BE SAVED.
This is consistent with CHrist's teachings, Paul's Peter's John and all the prophets of the OT...now UR says...we are all saved...no matter what we believe...and this...IS CONTRADICTORY TO HAVING FAITH.

LOVE DOES CONQUER ALL...for the believer....not for the unbeliever.

No love for God.....no love for man.
God loved the world so much...He gave His only Son...so that WE MAY INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE....NOT HAVE AUTOMATICALLY.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The scriptures defy this ALL REFINED theology to its core.

Enough said....again refinement - Malachi 3 - has only to do with the audience in question...and that is not the whole world ever has known, but only for the believer...WITH FAITH - Tribe of LEVI.
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:47 PM
 
5,807 posts, read 4,793,554 times
Reputation: 4303
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Isn't this all up to God, we are to proclaim the news, the rest is His job.
He said He elects, He said He chooses, He said, He draws.
You and I are to be obedient, and plant the seeds of His kingdom.
IT"S CALLED TAKING IT ALL ON FAITH.

Some things are just better left to Him.

This ABSOLUTELY coincides with my beliefs!

But there is a gloriousness in KNOWING without a shadow of a doubt that we CAN have faith in HIM. That our "loving our neighbor as ourself" is never in vain and that LOVE that we are loving our neighbors with, NEVER ENDS. LOVE never ends.
LOVE conquers ALL.
Love's power is unstoppable.
GOD IS LOVE.

Wake up brothers and sisters.
and embrace your Father and see Him for who He truly is!

peace,
sparrow
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