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Old 06-30-2010, 12:07 AM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,250 posts, read 659,543 times
Reputation: 451

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Stop!

You fail again....Philippians 2 and Romans 10 have only with Israel, those in Covenant! Look unto God and be saved!

Isa 45:22-25 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Surely, shall [one] say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: [even] to him shall [men] come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

You are butchering God's word!
You are creating a heresy!
You are telling these folks a lie!
You are adding to the words of God!

Isa 45:17 [But] Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
sciotamicks

Isa 45:14 Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.
Isa 45:15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
Isa 45:16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
Isa 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.



It seems to me that in Isaiah there are 2 classes of people, there is Israel who is obedient and will not be ashamed and they will rule, apparently Israel means he will rule as God, the others will be ashamed and confounded and humbled - they will come over to Gods elect in chains and we know that Jesus came to free those that are bound and lost, and will raise the dead........

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:46 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,438,367 times
Reputation: 420
Yes there are two classes...but salvation is to Israel...lest you all forget...read the entire prophecy....the non-Jews are becoming Israelites
Captives...those of the faith...the focus never strays...yet you bend the rules? Why?

Israel is saved. No one else. Paul reveals the promise to the Jews, the Gentiles and tells us in his epistles, as noted in Isaiah 45.....those of every knee and tongue are those that believe......yes.....that's Jew and Gentile...circumcised hearts.....faith.....belief...etc etc........Israel!
Paul drew from Isaiah 45 for this specific theme...all Israel ...Jew and Gentile..THAT BELIEVE!
Good grief.....what is the issue here?

It's staring you right in the face...read the text!

Look unto me, and be ye saved!

God is begging you to become and Israelite! Turn to Him...AND BE SAVED.
The message is so clear....THAT IS THE GOOD NEWS....TURN TO HIM.....AND YOU ARE SAVED!

Here is an excerpt of a verse you used....

Isa 45:14 Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.

It ails me when I see the UR person try and use scripture in their favor, and have no clue as to what the scripture is saying, especially when it tears down their whole view.
The message is so clear.

Last edited by sciotamicks; 06-30-2010 at 03:02 AM..
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Old 06-30-2010, 03:51 AM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,250 posts, read 659,543 times
Reputation: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
meerkat,

Yes there are two classes...but salvation is to Israel...lest you forget...read the entire prophecy.
Captives...those of the faith...the focus never strays...yet you bend the rules? Why?

Israel is saved. No one else. Paul reveals the promise to the Jews, the Gentiles and tells us in his epistles.....that's Jew and Gentile...circumcised hearts.....faith.....belief...etc etc....
Good grief.....what is the issue here?

It's staring you right in the face...read the text!

Look unto me, and be ye saved!

God is begging you to become and Israelite! Turn to Him...AND BE SAVED.
The message is so clear....THAT IS THE GOOD NEWS....TURN TO HIM.....AND YOU ARE SAVED!
Sciotamicks

What are you talking about?

I am an Israelite in the Spirit, I have turned to the Lord

I have read the whole prophecy and there are 2 types - those that are chosen and are priests and they minister to those who are not priests those that are not the priests will be ashamed and in that shame they will turn to the Lord.

God is a righteous judge.........
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Old 06-30-2010, 04:08 AM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,877,931 times
Reputation: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
For those who dislike/disaprove of "The Message" or don't accept it as being 'the bible' June apologizes in advance, but the quote, below, worked well for her:

"I'm praying not only for them
But also for those who will believe in me
Because of them and their witness about me.
The goal is for all of them to become one heart and mind --
Just as you, Father, are in me and I in you,
So they might be one heart and mind with us.
Then the world might believe that you, in fact, sent me.
The same glory you gave me, I gave them,
So they'll be a unified and together as we are --
I in them and you in me.
Then they'll be mature in this oneness,
And give the godless world evidence
That you've sent me adn loved them
In the same way you've loved me." (John 17:20-23)

...Somehow, the above speaks volumes to June, not the least of which saying that this whole divisive issue was somehow addressed in the gospel of John, but June could be attributing something to the above passage that isn't intended; quoting out of context?

Hopefully not....


Take gentle care.
June,

No apology needed, however, I don't know a single orthodox Christian (whether Protestant or Catholic) who sees "The Message" as anything other than a very seductive and dangerous distortion of God's Word. It is a New Age (Gnostic) book, not a Christian one.

READ MORE....
What kind of message is* The Message

Caveat Emptor.
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Old 06-30-2010, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,267,421 times
Reputation: 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
June would be more than happy to respond to the above, but is afraid it will have to wait as she is pressed for time and needs to get to her office. She was thinking about this last night, however, and came across the quote, below, which in her mind would somehow seem to reconcile what is a huge, vast discrepency between the two sides of ET v. UR. For those who dislike/disaprove of "The Message" or don't accept it as being 'the bible' June apologizes in advance, but the quote, below, worked well for her:

"I'm praying not only for them
But also for those who will believe in me
Because of them and their witness about me.
The goal is for all of them to become one heart and mind --
Just as you, Father, are in me and I in you,
So they might be one heart and mind with us.
Then the world might believe that you, in fact, sent me.
The same glory you gave me, I gave them,
So they'll be a unified and together as we are --
I in them and you in me.
Then they'll be mature in this oneness,
And give the godless world evidence
That you've sent me adn loved them
In the same way you've loved me." (John 17:20-23)

...Somehow, the above speaks volumes to June, not the least of which saying that this whole divisive issue was somehow addressed in the gospel of John, but June could be attributing something to the above passage that isn't intended; quoting out of context?

Hopefully not....


Take gentle care.
Excellent point June...it would seem that if Christians and those who follow other religions truly wanted to show the love of their God to others, that is what they would be doing instead of all the guilt, condemnation and hatred that spews forth from the vast majority of them. We are to love and show that love to everyone, no matter who they are, no matter what they believe in, no matter their race, sexual orientation, what denomination they belong to, what religion they practice, etc. Even though I no longer identify myself as a Christian, I will always try to live a life that is worthy, to leave a legacy of love, kindness and compassion behind me when I am long gone...we have been given some awesome advice regarding how we are to live as one with our fellow man, not just by Jesus buy by many in the past...and that is by loving them...but sadly, this is most often ignored or placed very far on the back burner because it's more important to get the religious point made.

Christians, and anyone of any religion for that matter, would be better served and can serve others better if they would simply just love their fellow man and live in harmony with him. At the end of the day...I will attract more people to me by simply loving them, being kind to them, showing them true compassion, than you ever will by condemning them because they don't believe exactly as you do. Try it sometime...it is a very easy experiment to complete. Put your religious prejudices behind you and simply love people, right where they are, for who they are and quit trying to change them...quit trying to ram your personal religious beliefs down their throats and just LOVE THEM!

There is an old saying: You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Honey=Love
Vinegar=guilt, condemnation and hatred

Get it?

Last edited by ChristyGrl; 06-30-2010 at 06:54 AM..
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Old 06-30-2010, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,153 posts, read 34,396,206 times
Reputation: 10500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Boy you people really don't read/listen, do you? It was how I was taught and there are many here besides myself who question it but are still defending it. All I can say is LISTEN to that tugging and questioning spirit because it's trying to tell you something!! That ET is a lie!
When Satan tugs at me, I just slap his hand away, and you should too.
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Old 06-30-2010, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,153 posts, read 34,396,206 times
Reputation: 10500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
That is what it is like to you, but from the private messages and reps I get, I have to respectfully disagree that your objections represent anything that I need to concern myself with.
Then it is worse than I thought. If what you say is true, then there is no telling how many people the URs have led astray onto the path of destruction.
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Old 06-30-2010, 06:25 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,622,062 times
Reputation: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Stop!

You fail again....Philippians 2 and Romans 10 have only with Israel, those in Covenant! Look unto God and be saved!

Isa 45:22-25 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Surely, shall [one] say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: [even] to him shall [men] come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

You are butchering God's word!
You are creating a heresy!
You are telling these folks a lie!
You are adding to the words of God!

Isa 45:17 [But] Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
No you are butchering God's word. So there.

Psalm 22
27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,
28 for dominion belongs to the LORD
and he rules over the nations.

29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him
those who cannot keep themselves alive.


All those who go down to the dust (ie. die) will kneel (bow) before him.

Rev 5:13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing:
"To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!"

Every creature is singing praises to the Lord in Revelations.

It is as meerkat says in Isaiah 45:25 - yes all Israel is justified, but EVERYONE bows.

Now is it ONLY Israel who is saved? This is merely a shadow of things to come, for Paul reveals the mystery of God's will later on:

Eph 1:9And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

Eph 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Romans 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved

All Israel will be saved, but not before the full number of Gentiles came in! Salvation is not just for Israel, but is for Gentiles & Jews.

Not ONLY is Israel made righteous through Christ's efforts, but ALL MEN are made righteous. In Adam all are made sinners, in Christ all are made righteous.

Physical Israel was God's chosen, yet through their disobedience the gospel came to the gentiles. Physical Israel is a type for the elect. Spiritual Israel is now the chosen elect - yet physical Israel will still be saved (but not before the fullness of the gentiles come in). How can this be, since physical Israel is no longer the chosen people? The only way is if EVERY PERSON is saved! And so all Israel will be saved, because God will have all men to be saved, and sent His son to atone for all people. All are made alive, but not in the same order. All will be made alive because death is defeated. It will be testified in due time.

This all happens through Abraham's seed - which is Christ and the elect. Through them, the entire world - all peoples and families are to be blessed. Not ONLY Israel, but all people.
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Old 06-30-2010, 06:38 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,842,576 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Then it is worse than I thought. If what you say is true, then there is no telling how many people the URs have led astray onto the path of destruction.

Sorry that your God can't do anything about it. Spread your Good News.
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Old 06-30-2010, 06:42 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,842,576 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post

I think I will stick with the Pope.


Which one?
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