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Old 06-28-2010, 02:30 PM
 
Location: New England
37,336 posts, read 28,072,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
UR does not teach "chance" or "offers," as if someone has to gamble with or make a deal for their salvation.

While traditional Christianity teaches you have a "chance" to "accept Jesus' offer," UR teaches that Jesus Christ IS the Savior of the whole world, as proclaimed in scripture.
True it's orthodox christianity that believes it's by chance , Jesus is passing by your way today , if you don't accept him it could be your last chance . They will deny they believe this but their posts are littered with such rubbish.
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:36 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 2,112,665 times
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Default Spiritual Rain and Sacred Monkeys

Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
Why is this so contrary to "Christianity" in so many people's minds? It tends to make equal sense to June as much as the "ET camp." If an individual has accepted Christ into their lives, and is transformed, spiritually 'reborn' by that, such that to their way of thinking and experiencing their lives, then why in the world would they NOT be "giving their lives to Christ" in the aftermath of having been "saved?"

~June just doesn't get the big, huge discrepancy except across denominational lines. And it is precisely that big, huge denominational discrepency that tends to make her wonder whether it isn't somehow discrediting both sides in the matter.

Granted, June can understand that both sides can't be "right. If the matter comes down to one where someone "automatically" goes to heaven, versus entre into heaven being earned, then June has a question. --Which also relates back to original point in the OP:

If a UR adherent truly has accepted Christ, has been "born again" and thereby "saved" then it seems to June that their actions post 'being born again' would somehow follow suit, such that they would have an equal chance at gaining admittance into heaven as the adherent of ET would. If being born again is tantamount to a new life in Christ, and a truly transformative experience as regards how one lives their life in this world, then why would the UR adherent NOT have just as much a likelihood of gaining admittance to heaven as someone who adheres to ET?

~Is June even wording the question correctly? She doesn't mean to confuse, but it makes sense in her mind, vis-a-vis on an intellectual, practical, and even spiritual level...

Many thanks in advance to whomever can clarify/make sense out of this one for June!


Take gentle care.
Oh dear, June.

You are as sincere as you are confused, and these two states in combination nearly always tug at my heart.

But I am cracking up here immensely, WAY too much to even try to answer your question, because all I can think about when I read this post is that classic scene in Brideshead Revisited where Rex Mottram, whilst being catechised to convert to Catholicism in preparation for his marriage to Julia Flyte, struggles to get his head around a belief system that makes about as much sense to him as Mandarin Chinese. And then there was that little divil Cordelia, yanking poor Rex's chain.....

So how about a little levity here?

Enjoy Juno. I am sending this one out just for you:

onegoodmove: Sacred Monkeys
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 6,336,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
UR does not teach "chance" or "offers," as if someone has to gamble with or make a deal for their salvation.

While traditional Christianity teaches you have a "chance" to "accept Jesus' offer," UR teaches that Jesus Christ IS the Savior of the whole world, as proclaimed in scripture.
Exactly. UR doesn't give people a "license to sin." It simply says that God doesn't give up on you. It's called "hope." And "mercy."
The message is still the same: salvation through Jesus Christ. ETers send people to hell if they don't accept their message. URers can continue to love those who reject them, knowing full well that what God has promised, He is able to perform, in HIS time.

Blessings to all,
brian
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:08 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,426,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
UR does not teach "chance" or "offers," as if someone has to gamble with or make a deal for their salvation..
Put in whatever word that best defines the moment after death that you think unbelievers are given that Jesus refers to about rejecting him. Call it 2nd chance....frankly I don't care. The greater point is the opportunity to enter heaven beyond death for the unbeliever is not available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
While traditional Christianity teaches you have a "chance" to "accept Jesus' offer," UR teaches that Jesus Christ IS the Savior of the whole world, as proclaimed in scripture.
You should do some research about traditional Christianity:
  1. Scripture proclaimed Jesus Christ IS the Savior of the whole world
  2. Jesus proclaimed."whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
  3. UR teaches whoever rejects the Son will not be held accountable for God's love remains on him
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:13 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,426,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Exactly. UR doesn't give people a "license to sin." It simply says that God doesn't give up on you. It's called "hope." And "mercy."
The message is still the same: salvation through Jesus Christ. ETers send people to hell if they don't accept their message. URers can continue to love those who reject them, knowing full well that what God has promised, He is able to perform, in HIS time.

Blessings to all,
brian
No Brian...ETer's don't send any one to hell. Unbeliever's unbelief sends a person to hell.

Jesus sends to hell anyone who reject him.....

John 12:48
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.

Matthew 25:41
"Then he [Jesus] will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 6,336,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
No Brian...ETer's don't send any one to hell. Unbeliever's unbelief sends a person to hell.

Jesus sends to hell anyone who reject him.....

John 12:48
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.

Matthew 25:41
"Then he [Jesus] will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
Hi Twin.spin,
I have seen many ETers tell people they're going to hell. That is not supposed to be their job, but they do it because they feel out of control (which of course they are). I've also seen it done here, even to me, to be specific.

Perhaps you don't believe that God is much greater than man. Man argues and whines and throws a tantrum when he doesn't get his way. Man gives up. God never does.
God always gets His way, which was fulfilled on the cross at calvary.

Blessings,
brian
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:22 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 2,101,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Put in whatever word that best defines the moment after death that you think unbelievers are given that Jesus refers to about rejecting him. Call it 2nd chance....frankly I don't care. The greater point is the opportunity to enter heaven beyond death for the unbeliever is not available.









You should do some research about traditional Christianity:
  1. Scripture proclaimed Jesus Christ IS the Savior of the whole world
  2. Jesus proclaimed."whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
  3. UR teaches whoever rejects the Son will not be held accountable for God's love remains on him
You don't understand UR. It's not about getting another chance or opportunity. Jesus is the Savior and we were saved because of His death and resurrection. It is finished. It is a complete work of God and there's nothing we can do to earn it by good works or saying a short prayer. Eternal life means to "know Him," (John 17:3) so if you believe in Him you know Him now, if you don't, you'll know Him later. If you know him now, you are saved from the second death, which is the wages of sin.

UR never teaches no one is held accountable. We believe you reap what you sow. Most other Christians believe that once you believe you're home free and that's all that matters. They'll tell you all about the rewards and crowns, just not the other part. Which one promotes no consequences?

If God's wrath "remains" on him, then that means His wrath has to already be on Him to remain. What do you see as God's wrath on unbelievers right now? It's different for different people. Do you see anyone continually burning now? Then how could that "remain" on him if it isn't even on Him?

Please try to understand UR so you don't inadvertently post falsehoods.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,920 posts, read 47,227,002 times
Reputation: 14750
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
No Brian...ETer's don't send any one to hell. Unbeliever's unbelief sends a person to hell.

Jesus sends to hell anyone who reject him.....

John 12:48
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.

Matthew 25:41
"Then he [Jesus] will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
If you read Paul's words, it sure does not sound like everyone will be saved. It sounds like there are those who will be in presence of God, and those who will be away from him being punished by everlasting destruction.

2Th 1:5-10 5All this is evidence that God's judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power 10on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:31 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,426,984 times
Reputation: 1319
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
True it's orthodox christianity that believes it's by chance , Jesus is passing by your way today , if you don't accept him it could be your last chance . They will deny they believe this but their posts are littered with such rubbish.
I don't subcribe to decision-theology...however God doesn't overlook rejecting Jesus.

For what ever reason you got this ax to grind about "orthodox christianity"....

"orthodox christianity" isn't the issue.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:37 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,909,479 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
I don't subcribe to decision-theology...however God doesn't overlook rejecting Jesus.

For what ever reason you got this ax to grind about "orthodox christianity"....

"orthodox christianity" isn't the issue.

God doesn't overlook rejecting Christ, but as this thread is about June, June has not rejected Christ, she has only rejected what religion may define what that is and / or looks like to those who would cast the shadow of that on June.

You are right, orthodox Christianity is not the issue, in junes case it is completely irrelevant.
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