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Maybe your right but at times I get so ticked at the blindness of some people. Seems they don't want to learn.
I was that way for many years. It's not so much that they don't want to learn as it is fear and pride! Trust me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
Hell exists. The lake of fire exists. Hell will be cast into the lake of fire along with death as a surefire victory in Christ. The devil and his angels will be cast into the lake of fire, thus no more Temptor. Those that received the mark of the beast during the great tribulation will be cast into the lake of fire: does UR blink on that?
The grave (translated hell in some Bibles) exists. The LOF exists. And the dead will be cast into the LOF. The devil and his angels will be tormented in the PRESENCE OF THE LAMB!
For those that are ticked at the blindness of us that disagree, which teaching then would be more likely to cause one to be persecuted in the early church days? UR or ET ?
UR. Refer to the answer I gave you in the Zoroastrianism thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
The Good News cannot be Good News if there is nothing bad for the Good News to be Good News from.
Is death bad news? How many times have you known somebody close to you that has died and you said, "Praise God," and then started partying.
Is being lost in the dark bad news? Aren't we all seeing through the glass darkly? THEN shall we see him face to face.
I don't know WHY we have to be saved from being set on fire for eternity to believe in the Good News! Really?
Last edited by herefornow; 06-24-2010 at 04:00 PM..
In the original languages of the Bible - Hebrew and Koine Greek, eternal hellfire is NEVER taught! We only get this idea of an eternal hellfire where people will burn forever in agony in the English Bible. But God never ever taught it, and eternal hellfire is not Biblical.
Eternal hellfire stems from devils first lie[Gen 3:4], then came pagan philosophy, jewish apostasies, catholicism then protestantism!
In the Hebrew and Greek, Sheol[Hebrew] and Hades,Tartaroo and Gehenna[Greek] is a place of death, darkness & silence. In other words, the grave! But the English word "Hell" means an eternal burning place of agony! But in the original Hebrew/Greek, there is no such word as "hell".
The Roman Catholic Church pushed for this "eternal hellfire" teaching so they could get money of out of people from fear during dark ages, and this led and influenced translators to use english words such as "hell" and "eternal" for greek words that does NOT mean hell or endless.
God is a loving merciful God, and not a tormenting, revengeful and sadistic God as many people will claim that will burn forever the lost where they will be screaming out in TERROR and PAIN forever without being able to ever put a stop to their pain!
What's the purpose of God's punishment as taught in Bible? Punishment is for CORRECTION and REDIRECTION of acts, to align with God's law and repent! Yet with a eternal hellfire, there is no objective in it, there is no end to the punishment and no opportunity to change and repent, hence, NO objective to the punishment! I reject the idea of eternal punishment and my God and my Bible doesn't teach it.
And if the wages of sin was eternal hellfire and agony, that would mean that Jesus, our total substitute, who had to bear the FULL penalty of our sins, would have to burn forever in agony in eternal hellfire.
Eternal sleep[death] is the wages for those who reject Jesus - John 3:36, Rom 6:23, Psa 37:20,104:35. They will burn, and burn up and be no more in a lake of fire which will eventually burn out - Oba 1:16.
The elect Righteous Remnant are the leaves of the Word Tree (Jesus)
The elect Righteous Remnant are the leaves of the Word Tree (Jesus)
Revelation 22:1 And He showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb,
And He showed me a river(Symbol of the flow of thoughts, either good or evil.) of water(People, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. Sea of Mankind) (Note: Revelation 1;15; 7:17; 8:10,11; 11:6; 14:2,7; 16:4,5; 17:11,15; 19:6.)
of life, (The Son; He that has the Son has the life
bright ascrystal, (The veil is removed as we abide in Christ, therefore, we are no longer blinded and can see clearly, with understanding)
proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb, (The throne is in the center of our hearts, His Temple, as we share the throne with the Father and His Son.)
Revelation 22:2 in the midst of the street thereof. And on either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve [manner of] fruits, yielding its fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Oh, how blind and hard-hearted we have become to think that our God could do such a horrible thing! God’s judgments that are designed to bring men to an end of themselves are one thing, but “eternal” misery and torture is something quite different. Shame on us for first, not even questioning whether such a doctrine could be true, and secondly, for being lazy and content with accepting what our church leaders have taught us without doing the study required to determine the real truth of God’s great love for all men.
How God must be grieved to see His own people telling lies about Him. How we hate when lies are told about us. How much more our Father in heaven must hurt because of the way we portray Him to men. At Golgotha, two thieves were crucified with Jesus, one on each side. One thief mocked Christ, while the other defended Him. The doctrine of “eternal” torment mocks the work of Christ and the love of God. Which “thief” will you be today? Will you continue to mock the character of God by continuing to teach this lie or will you come to the defense of the gospel and proclaim the real truth about God and His Son Jesus.
Lastly, we must ask ourselves, what “gospel” are we taking to the world? What is the good news that Paul tells us to proclaim?
And all things are from God, the One having conciliated us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and having given to us the ministry of conciliation, as, that God was in Christ conciliating the world to Himself, not charging their deviations to them, and having put the Word of conciliation in us. Then on behalf of Christ, we are ambassadors, as God is exhorting through us, we beseech on behalf of Christ, Be conciliated to God. (2 Cor. 5:18-20)
Our message to the world is not that they need to “accept” Jesus Christ or they will suffer the consequences of “eternal” torment. We are to go forth and tell the world that they have been conciliated to God through Christ and that God is not charging their sins to them. We are to exhort them to be conciliated back to God. This is the message of ambassadorship that we are to carry to the world.
Paul spoke to the philosophers at Mars Hill in Acts 17:31 and warns them of a coming judgment. I do believe we would be incomplete in our representation of God if we failed to warn men (including Christians) that there are consequences for sin. Paul’s message to these philosophers was that God is strictly commanding all men everywhere to repent. (V. 31) However, there is a big difference between warning men of a coming day when God will judge all men (which He most certainly will), and that the consequence of not accepting Jesus Christ is “eternal” torment in flames of fire. The latter is not the gospel.
The gospel of God in Christ is that God has conciliated the world (not just Christians) to Himself through the blood of His Cross. Paul tells us in 1 Tim. 4:10 that Christ is the Savior of all men, especially those who believe. When was the last time you heard an evangelist tell unbelievers that Jesus Christ is their Savior and that God has conciliated them to Himself, and is not charging their sins to their account? When?
Our message is to implore them to be conciliated to the Father in Christ—in order that full reconciliation can take place, not so that they will burn in “eternal” flames if they don’t accept Christ. This is not the message of an ambassador of the good news. This was not Paul’s message to the nations, and it is not to be ours. I believe the doctrine of “eternal” torment has done more harm in turning people off to the gospel than any other false doctrine the Church has embraced. It is a blasphemous lie that maligns the character of God and weakens the work of Christ. It is high time to “study to show ourselves approved” that we may know the truth of the “full” gospel of God in Christ.
In conclusion, I have tried to set forth the reasons why I believe we need to re-think this doctrine of “eternal” punishment. My hope and prayer is that I have helped you to see the necessity of seeking the Lord on this critical issue. There are many study resources available to help you in your search for the truth.
I know people who have forsaken Christianity because of this false doctrine of never-ending punishments. I know dear saints who’ve had nervous breakdowns because they were honest enough to really think through what the Church teaches on this issue. The rest of us (myself included) have simply accepted this “tradition of men” as truth. It was Adolph Hitler who said, “Tell a lie long enough, loud enough, and often enough and people will start to believe you.”
I will close this essay with a short quote by Andrew Jukes in his book The Restitution of All Things.
It is not for me to judge God’s saints who have gone before. Their judgment is with the Lord, and their work with their God. But when I think of the words, not of the carnal and profane, but even of some of God’s dear children in that long night, when “the beast” which looked “like a lamb, but spake as a dragon,” had dominion; when I find Augustine saying, that “though infants departing from the body without baptism will be in the mildest damnation of all, yet he greatly deceives and is deceived who preaches that they will not be in damnation,” meaning thereby unending punishment; or Thomas Aquinas, that “the bliss of the saved may please them more, and they may render more abundant thanks to God for it, that they are permitted to gaze on the punishment of the wicked;” or Peter Lombard, that “the elect, while they see the unspeakable sufferings of the ungodly, shall not be affected with grief, but rather satiated with joy at the sight, and give thanks to God for their own salvation;” or Luther, that “it is the highest degree of faith to believe that God is merciful, who saves so few and damns so many; to believe Him just, who of His own will makes us necessarily damnable;”
…When I remember that such men have said such things, and that words like these have been approved by Christians, I can only fall down and pray that such a night may not return, and that where it yet weighs on men’s hearts the Lord may scatter it.
He that overcomes - νικῶν shall inherit all things
Hold fast in your FAITH.
Hold fast in your FAITH . What does this mean to you Sciota ?. Believing you have all the correct beliefs and doctrines ? , or ?
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