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Old 06-24-2010, 02:49 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,784,939 times
Reputation: 1595

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There is a dark power that emanates from the desire to have power and control over others. This power is seen in all religions and in politics. I can remember from the time I was a child being tempted with this kind of power. Do you see how power and the lust for power corrupts us? Here's an article demonstrating this very thing.

--- Heartsong



Why Do Evangelicals Dislike Me So Much

By Brian McLaren

Itís not hard to fall out of the good graces of the most conservative elements of any religious community. And those authority figures often become even more testy under stress. One doesnít have to go far to see some of the sources of that stress, whether weíre looking among Evangelical Christians (as Carol Howard Merritt recently described) or among Roman Catholic Christians (as Ian Masters recently summarized).
The impact of conservative or fundamentalist displeasure extends far beyond fundamentalismís borders into moderate religious territory. As some of the New Atheists have pointed out, highly conservative authority figures multiply their power by keeping moderate elements afraid of becoming the objects of conservative ire.

Having succeeded in becoming such an object through my writings (especially my latest book, A New Kind of Christianity), Iím often asked during interviews why many Evangelicals dislike me so much. The question has prompted me to reflect on religious authority and its workings.
The classic Milgram experiment performed at Yale in the early 1960s showed that a strong majority of normal people will surrender their conscience to a person perceived as a legitimate authority figure. When people were instructed by an authoritative researcher to administer electric shocks of increasing intensity after each wrong answer given by a stranger (who was actually an actor cooperating with the test), they complied in alarming numbers. And they kept complying, continuing to press the punishment button after the person had screamed in pain and then apparently gone unconscious. Milgram explained:

I set up a simple experiment at Yale University to test how much pain an ordinary citizen would inflict on another person simply because he was ordered to by an experimental scientist. Stark authority was pitted against the subjectsí [participants'] strongest moral imperatives against hurting others, and, with the subjectsí [participants'] ears ringing with the screams of the victims, authority won more often than not. The extreme willingness of adults to go to almost any lengths on the command of an authority constitutes the chief finding of the study and the fact most urgently demanding explanation.
In my opinion, multitudes of Christians find themselves in a real-life Milgram experiment these days. Their consciences are in conflict with their beloved religious authority figures on several key issues ó ten of which I raise in my book ó but they continue to press the punishment button when instructed to do so. For example:

Many find it increasingly unconscionable to believe that they are among the elect and their non-Christian neighbors (and in many cases, their doctrinally-different Christian neighbors as well) are damned, awaiting eternal conscious torment in hell for their failure to convert to the Christian faith. They realize that this belief has a wide range of negative psychological, social, and political impacts, and they have questions and doubts about the whole system, but they remain silent.
Many have lost confidence in a violent God who punishes people for the sins of their ancestors, who uses tsunamis and earthquakes to visit wrath on the disgraced, who blesses wars of choice, and so on. But they publicly defend this view of God in spite of their private misgivings.
Many continue to oppose full human rights for Palestinians because they believe end-time Bible prophecies mandate their underdog status, and because they believe God has granted special privileges and ethical exemptions to the Israeli government. When they hear about the injustices being suffered by Palestinians, they still keep silent. The day-to-day political power of the Christian Zionist lobby in the United States (which has enormous control in the world of religious broadcasting) thus becomes a kind of daily repeat of the Milgram experiment.

Many are afraid to admit that they voted for Barack Obama, or believe in evolution, or are concerned about global climate change, or are OK with their friends being gay or priests being married, or use birth control, or wish women could be treated as equals in their church, or donít take every word of the Bible as having equal authority and historical accuracy. If they speak up, they will be shunned by their religious authorities ó and zapped by their fellow Christians who have been told to press the punishment button when anyone dares to differ by giving the "wrong" answer. So they comply.

When some of us raise questions about these and other issues, and especially when we question some of the underlying theological assumptions that have created these harmful patterns repeatedly through history, we are subjected to the pain buzzer as well. Our motives are judged, our words are twisted, our proposals are misinterpreted, and our books are even banned or burned. But we arenít complaining; weíre just sayiní: if we, their fellow Christians, are treated like this, how is it going to be for Muslims, gays, Palestinians, and the poor, not to mention the polar bears and rain forests?
So the best way to stay out of religious trouble is to keep your opinions private whenever they differ from the most strident inquisitors in your religious community. If you feel a twinge of guilt when you condemn a person for being gay, donít think about it. Just press the button. When you use dehumanizing language for people of other faith traditions ó or of other opinions within your own faith tradition ó donít feel bad. Just press the button again. Side with your religious authority figures, not with those being criticized, scapegoated, condemned, excluded, and zapped. If you believe what youíre told and verbally zap those who differ, you wonít get in trouble.
But then again, if these religious authorities are such good people, why do you have to be so afraid of them?

What Stanley Milgram said about "ordinary people simply doing their jobs" could also be said about ordinary Christians (or Muslims, or Jews, or atheists) simply following their leaders.
Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality, relatively few people have the resources needed to resist authority.

Iím a Christian. I love God, Jesus, the Bible, prayer, worship, serving others ó the whole package. But when my conscience tells me that Iím hurting people by complying with religious conventions, I donít keep pressing the button. I start asking questions. Thatís why I wrote my book, and thatís why Iím willing to get into trouble for it.
Brian McLaren, a former pastor, is the author of a dozen books, most recently A New Kind of Christianity: Ten Questions That are aTransforming the Faith (HarperOne).
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Old 06-24-2010, 08:26 AM
 
1,492 posts, read 2,305,844 times
Reputation: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post

There is a dark power that emanates from the desire to have power and control over others. This power is seen in all religions and in politics. I can remember from the time I was a child being tempted with this kind of power. Do you see how power and the lust for power corrupts us? Here's an article demonstrating this very thing.

--- Heartsong
indeed.thx for the post
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:42 AM
 
Location: missouri
1,179 posts, read 1,215,366 times
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Eventually he will establish (well he is a cog in the the works) his own conventions, and of course he already knows them (the game is to be a genuine seeker with the low keyed air of superiority in that mode, notice his examples are one sided-"left" leaning and he uses language to pre-bias the reader {imagine a "right" leaning christian in a liberal church; this he does not}), and when these become the norm, then it will be okay to harm those outside-there is always an inside and outside-he wants himself and his ideas on the inside and that will push the present outside; authority will shift to his position; it is always about power. His questioning, such truth seeking, are in reality to sow doubt (that is what questions do) and help establish his view of "reality" (there is no innocence here). There seems to be a big transition going on (maybe it is always going on but it is overt at the moment, and the outside can smell it and the oppertunity for taking over) and it mirrors the culture, as usual, and christians will take it in the majority (I am not lining up either way, I just hate this drivel game playing by these dorks, at any rate when this all happens I will be able to stay home sundays and save some cash), and this questioning crap that he is floating will become the new authority. It will not bring the expected utopia and harmony, but the taking over by this other view is going to happen. This is merely flattery to give the crowd what it wants.
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Old 06-24-2010, 04:26 PM
 
8,126 posts, read 7,117,375 times
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In some political nation Authoritarianism nation like North Korea, Chad, Turkmenistan, appear to be strong canidites of this over use of Authority against the freedom of individualism. . But this ideas will not work with the authority of Heaven and purpose of Jesus Christ,..... For if you put Jesus Christ in the same ideas where these corrupt Nations are than you will belittle the Lord Jesus and his purpose in the world. ....See you may question the Churches authority are the over use of Control spirits, that do not come from Heaven are used to manipulate Spiritual abuse over the believer of Christ, and bring them into captivity, after Jesus set them free indeed is one thing that you will need the authority of Heaven to overcome,.. Where the authority to over come by Heaven For Authority for believers will come to believers who will let Jesus be their Judge, and Jesus will answer the Prayers of these people only were HIS authority is.....Like Plead the Blood of Jesus Christ over these control spirit in the Church of Jesus Christ were Jesus built HIS Church and hades will not prevail against it.....And Lord Jesus is our Judge over all things and will take our plead to his will and Judge the injustices for his purposes.....
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Old 06-24-2010, 06:43 PM
 
51 posts, read 111,085 times
Reputation: 30
Actually if we believe what God gave us in His word,then Brian McLaren has a problem. If we can make it up as we go along however,then we can worship aardvarks right? After all...All roads lead home. Or do they? Watch this.....


YouTube - Brian Mclaren And The Dangers Of The Emergent Church
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,784,939 times
Reputation: 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertJoe View Post
Actually if we believe what God gave us in His word,then Brian McLaren has a problem. If we can make it up as we go along however,then we can worship aardvarks right? After all...All roads lead home. Or do they? Watch this.....
Well, obviously the guy in the film is not short on using sarcasm with his voice and plenty of acrimony. I wonder why they didn't just let Brian McLaren speak for himself, if he supposedly said the very same things on film? Well, it wouldn't then be as acrimonious (and for you, entertaining) minus the actor would it?

Just want to say, those who have been shown God's bigger picture and his complete plan for mankind are not hindered by this sort of criticism. Even Death itself has a good purpose - to rid the world of all the insincerity/un-love, sarcasasm, and pride that is so abundant in the earth. There will not be this kind of sin in the resurrected Body.

Heartsong
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:41 AM
 
51 posts, read 111,085 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Well, obviously the guy in the film is not short on using sarcasm with his voice and plenty of acrimony. I wonder why they didn't just let Brian McLaren speak for himself, if he supposedly said the very same things on film? Well, it wouldn't then be as acrimonious (and for you, entertaining) minus the actor would it?

Just want to say, those who have been shown God's bigger picture and his complete plan for mankind are not hindered by this sort of criticism. Even Death itself has a good purpose - to rid the world of all the insincerity/un-love, sarcasasm, and pride that is so abundant in the earth. There will not be this kind of sin in the resurrected Body.

Heartsong
So you are now a gnostic, who is so enlightened above us all the air must be very thin up there...not so good for the thought process You can say that you "know God's bigger picture" & yet you cannot make it square with His revealed word. No wonder you have to rely on conjecture & sophistry...but cannot make your point with the facts.May God have mercy on you.Have a nice day
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