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Old 06-27-2010, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Most Christians will agree (shocker) that God destroyed the Jewish center of worship through the Romans in 70AD. Why? If following the Law and being supremely pious was not the way of God... what is? Why were animal sacrifices stopped if we still have to sacrifice to a god?? What is the currency? Why didn't Jesus worship God MORE and heal people LESS if that is what is important?

What should you be doing on a Sunday (or Saturday if that is your Sabbath)?

Going to church to worship God?? (Is this observing the sabbath?)

Sitting around watching TV?? (This definitely IS observing the sabbath)

Reading the bible to a lonely elderly neighbor?? (Is reading work?)

What is the "Spirit" of the sabbath? of the Law?

What is the "Spirit" of following God? Which is more important: Worshipping God or helping your neighbor move? Which would you choose?

I have a ton of questions without a whole 'lotta answers.

God did pour out his wrath on the children of Israel according to scripture. Many times. All for the same reason. Missing the "Spirit" of following God. All action, all talk, NO LOVE. Without love all the rest is nothing. (1 Cor. 13)

The Spirit of God is Love (you know, just like the Spirit of Christmas is giving). God would want you to help your neighbor move rather than go to church and worship him.... wouldn't he?
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Excellent points in this post, Katjonjj. It seems to have slid down the board so fast I missed it.

Heartsong
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:17 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Most Christians will agree (shocker) that God destroyed the Jewish center of worship through the Romans in 70AD. Why? If following the Law and being supremely pious was not the way of God... what is? Why were animal sacrifices stopped if we still have to sacrifice to a god?? What is the currency? Why didn't Jesus worship God MORE and heal people LESS if that is what is important?
Aren't you trying to direct the answer of the first question with your other questions, and thus missing the point of your original question?

Since Jesus prophesied that the Temple will be thrown down and after three days, He will raise it: then the destruction of the Temple was only a part of what God had done, right?

We look at history and see that the temple was thrown down literally and so we wonder what Jesus was talking about in regards to the three days of raising one.

So what other references to the three days do we have? Jesus having died and been buried three days. Then He rose.

So what happened to the temple He would raise?

1 Corinthians 6: 19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

And that happens for all those that believe in Jesus Christ.

More proof?

How about the conversation with the Samaritan woman about the place of worshipping God.

John 4:20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

So in other words, it is not going to a place anymore is how one comes to God to worship Him for He is with us always as our body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

Believers that look for signs and wonders in the worship place or the place of assembling together should be warned.

Matthew 24: 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before. 26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Some will take it to mean just a man declaring that he is Jesus Christ, but not so.

1 John 4: 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Many believers are misreading this verse as meaning the denial that Jesus had ever come to the earth in the flesh, but not so. They are referring to the faith here:

2 Corinthians 13:5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

That is what is meant by the phrase " Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh " as in whomever bears witness presently of the faith. More proof to the meaning as present tense and not past tense follows the following verses.

1 John 4: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So present tense and not referring to Jesus having come in the flesh which He did, but that is not the meaning of these verses since the topic is in regards to the faith versus feeling the Lord's Presence in the place of worship.

Believers use the Day of Pentecost as if that sets the norm for the comings and goings of the Holy Spirit but not so, because Jesus said so:

John 14:16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

That is the way of the world in how they seek after spirits for they receive them as they see it.

1 John 4: 5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

Want further proof that the manifestations would not come about to bring about the report that "God is here" in the worship service or place?

1 Corinthians 14:24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

So Jesus did away with coming to a worship place in coming to God for all that come to God the Father do so by coming to Jesus to worship Him IN spirit and IN truth.... not OUT of the Spirit and APART from the Truth.

Believers can gather wherever they want to worship God the Father through the Son IN spirit and IN truth as that is the good report and the witness we are to have that Jesus is with us always for we are His.

However, to maintain that witness, they should not go there when believers point to a worship place in coming to God or to the Holy Spirit. The faith is that He is in us and we cannot go to a worship place to get any closer to God than we already are in Jesus Christ.

Keeping the faith is the good fight in being a witness of the Son in seeking His glory Whose name is above every other name to the glory of God the Father.
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:11 PM
 
51 posts, read 150,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Most Christians will agree (shocker) that God destroyed the Jewish center of worship through the Romans in 70AD. Why? If following the Law and being supremely pious was not the way of God... what is? Why were animal sacrifices stopped if we still have to sacrifice to a god?? What is the currency? Why didn't Jesus worship God MORE and heal people LESS if that is what is important?

What should you be doing on a Sunday (or Saturday if that is your Sabbath)?

Going to church to worship God?? (Is this observing the sabbath?)

Sitting around watching TV?? (This definitely IS observing the sabbath)

Reading the bible to a lonely elderly neighbor?? (Is reading work?)

What is the "Spirit" of the sabbath? of the Law?

What is the "Spirit" of following God? Which is more important: Worshipping God or helping your neighbor move? Which would you choose?

I have a ton of questions without a whole 'lotta answers.

God did pour out his wrath on the children of Israel according to scripture. Many times. All for the same reason. Missing the "Spirit" of following God. All action, all talk, NO LOVE. Without love all the rest is nothing. (1 Cor. 13)

The Spirit of God is Love (you know, just like the Spirit of Christmas is giving). God would want you to help your neighbor move rather than go to church and worship him.... wouldn't he?
It is interesting the way you have presented this.You have hit the nail on the head.Love the Lord your God with all you heart & all your soul & all your mind & all your strength & love your neighbor as yourself...nothing new...Deuteronomy 6:5 & Leviticus 19:18...& yet people still don't get it.If we have Jesus living in us,we have a heart that is changed...in Luke 10 we see this :

30In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. 35The next day he took out two silver coinse and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

In those days we see 2 very religious men "going home from church" as it were,for they were going down the road,& Jerusalem is always up.They actually used religion as an excuse not to help a dying man,for it would make them unclean for a while.& after all,God wants our rituals much more than the life of a dying man,right?Up walks a Samaritan...one who was as far from God in the minds of Jews of that day as one could be....& takes care of the dying man.Jesus rightly asked later who the neighbor was to the dying man.I will plagiarize Chuck Swindoll,& in so doing break one of the commandments.as he so eloquently put it,the real question is who is my neighbor's neighbor.Who do I see when I look in the mirror?Do we love Jesus enough to stop for a dying man?How about a homeless person? How about someone broken down on the road on Sunday...before or after church.Do we (yes...including myself in this) love Jesus enough to stop when we see Him dying on the side of the road? I will take a specific out of scripture because it presents a universal principal :

34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’

Are we neighbor to "the least of these" today? God our Father,I ask in Jesus Name that you would give us the heart of Jesus,& that when we see someone truly in need,we will as it were give up our loaves & fish for your glory,& so that your mercy & your grace will triumph. God bless you
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,528,565 times
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Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Excellent points in this post, Katjonjj. It seems to have slid down the board so fast I missed it.

Heartsong
LOL it did!
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:35 PM
 
5,503 posts, read 5,570,961 times
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Originally Posted by DesertJoe View Post
It is interesting the way you have presented this.You have hit the nail on the head.Love the Lord your God with all you heart & all your soul & all your mind & all your strength & love your neighbor as yourself...nothing new...Deuteronomy 6:5 & Leviticus 19:18...& yet people still don't get it.If we have Jesus living in us,we have a heart that is changed...in Luke 10 we see this :

30In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. 35The next day he took out two silver coinse and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

In those days we see 2 very religious men "going home from church" as it were,for they were going down the road,& Jerusalem is always up.They actually used religion as an excuse not to help a dying man,for it would make them unclean for a while.& after all,God wants our rituals much more than the life of a dying man,right?Up walks a Samaritan...one who was as far from God in the minds of Jews of that day as one could be....& takes care of the dying man.Jesus rightly asked later who the neighbor was to the dying man.I
will plagiarize Chuck Swindoll,& in so doing break one of the commandments.as he so eloquently put it,the real question is who is my neighbor's neighbor.Who do I see when I look in the mirror?Do we love Jesus enough to stop for a dying man?How about a homeless person? How about someone broken down on the road on Sunday...before or after church.Do we (yes...including myself in this) love Jesus enough to stop when we see Him dying on the side of the road? I will take a specific out of scripture because it presents a universal principal :

34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’

Are we neighbor to "the least of these" today? God our Father,I ask in Jesus Name that you would give us the heart of Jesus,& that when we see someone truly in need,we will as it were give up our loaves & fish for your glory,& so that your mercy & your grace will triumph. God bless you
I see this event in a slightly different lens...

I don't see the priest and the Levite/pastor as people without compassion....only that, they belong to an organization/church which would not allow for one person to ACT independently. They would have to have the permission of the higher-ups in order to help the dying...by then...it would too late.

On the contrary...the Samaritan did not/does not...they worship in the mountain directly to the spirit of GOD whom they knew is "LOVE" (John 4:21-26)...therefore could react in time to rescue the dying man.

Blessings...
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
I see this event in a slightly different lens...

I don't see the priest and the Levite/pastor as people without compassion....only that, they belong to an organization/church which would not allow for one person to ACT independently. They would have to have the permission of the higher-ups in order to help the dying...by then...it would too late.

On the contrary...the Samaritan did not/does not...they worship in the mountain directly to the spirit of GOD whom they knew is "LOVE" (John 4:21-26)...therefore could react in time to rescue the dying man.

Blessings...
Interesting take...but Jesus did ask Who was the neighbor to the man? Implying the priest & Levite did not keep Leviticus 19:18.As for the Samaritan,& again going in to John 4,Jesus said to the woman "You worship what you do not know" The Samaritans were idolaters....no doubt about that...but the Idolaters seemed to come to Jesus quicker than than the religious Jews did.
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DesertJoe View Post
Interesting take...but Jesus did ask Who was the neighbor to the man? Implying the priest & Levite did not keep Leviticus 19:18.As for the Samaritan,& again going in to John 4,Jesus said to the woman "You worship what you do not know" The Samaritans were idolaters....no doubt about that...but the Idolaters seemed to come to Jesus quicker than than the religious Jews did.
Another example was when Jesus told the 10 lepers to go see the priests and only the Samaritan turned back and thanked him instead...despite of what Jesus himself ordered the 10 to do...

Where are the 9? was Jesus' question...
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
Another example was when Jesus told the 10 lepers to go see the priests and only the Samaritan turned back and thanked him instead...despite of what Jesus himself ordered the 10 to do...

Where are the 9? was Jesus' question...
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Old 07-02-2010, 06:04 AM
 
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Sure at the cross where Jesus was dying in Luke 23:45..¨The sun was darkened and the veil in the temple was rent in the midst¨.... Who rent the veil..... but the Lord God rent the veil ending HIS authority of the Temple in Jerusalem so the New Temple would go to Believer who received Christ and his Baptism.... That is were Christians Worship the Lord God on the Temple of the Holy Spirit on the believers a place where the world cannot distroy this temple and overtake it or bring it to ruins .... So when believers with their Temples of Holy Spirit get together for Corporate Worship their Spirits will temporary combine during their meeting in the Spirit......The Sabbath was given to men so that God would have purpose in their lives..... There was a prophecy in the 1850s that brought on the potato famine in Ireland Where Jesus told them that ¨¨You work seven days a week and only the older women come to church so God was going to lift off his hand from them¨¨... they would have to pray for God hand to help them.....There is a liberal spirit beast with seven head and ten horns, the seven head represents seven blaspheme against the Lord God and the ten horns represents rejection of the ten commandments of the Lord God. plus there was ten crowns that represent victory over these rejection of the Ten Commandments, so is believer reject a commandments of the Lord they must take up the authority of Lord Jesus blood and keep these liberal spirits away or sin will come , We are not under the law which substitutes law verses faith, but the spirit that gives life in to the law through the prayer with HIS Blood........
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