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Old 07-01-2010, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Are you saying that the gap is the problem and not the counting of years? I would agree but this 360 year thing is annoying as well and leads people to believe it is left unfulfilled which causes them to put in the gap in the first place. IMO.
She's absolutely right. It has nothing to do with the actual years, those are symbolic, but they do however, fall within the time frame allotted in the prophetic framework. There needs to be NO gap.
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Old 05-27-2015, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,666,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
I started to post this on the thread about the 70AD prophecy,then decided not to possibly hijack it and instead post here.So here goes.

All you need to know about how silly the idea of the end times is, is this.Most end times prophecy,without going into great detail,is based around the idea of a final 7 year period of a prophecy from the book of Daniel still to be fulfilled.(google Daniel's 70 weeks for those interested in the details).But the prophecy makes clear that all the 490 years (70 weeks of years) should have already passed.Why?Because the starting point for the prophecy can be no later than 444 BC.It is based around the delivering of a decree to rebuild Jerusalem,and the last decree doing this was given in 444 BC.Obviously more than 490 years have past since that decree has been issued.So what gives with the end times folks and this problem?Ah,watch and learn the mind of a fundie Christian.According to Hal Lindsey,who is the guru emeritus on all things end times,God decided to "stop the stopwatch" after the 483rd year of the prophecy.Thhhaaattt'ss right folks!The 483rd year of the prophecy occurred sometime around Christ's time,the 484th has not yet started.Novel approach,no?When the countdown to a prophecy isn't going as it should for your belief,you simply stop counting.Until you want to start counting again.Evidently God didn't get the plan worked out exactly right in 444 BC,so He simply put the prophecy on hold.

And there you have it boys and girls.Never doubt the ability of a conservative literalist Christian to be able to twist and manipulate the Scriptures they claim to believe in LITERALLY.Except,of course,when their beliefs do not literally jibe with what Scripure says.Then all bets are off.

By the way,I am going out on a limb and predicting the election of a woman President in 2 1/2 years.If it doesn't occur in 2012,then obviously the stopwatch was stopped,and will begin ticking again at some future time.I imagine I will be able to tell exactly when it started reticking on,oh say,the Wednesday after a woman is elected in November.I'll get back to you on this.
Thread revival for some who were interested in the rapture.
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Old 05-27-2015, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,666,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
You still have the problem of 49 weeks equaling 49 REAL OUR TIME YEARS....

See.. Even if you use "Prophecy Years" (which don't actually exist) you still have 365.25 REAL days to account for each year. Every year you miss out on 5.25 days. 5.25 times 49 is 257.25 days. So your 483 prophecy YEARS is actually 482 REAL YEARS... therefore your 7 year tribulation is not REALLY seven Years but 6 REAL years and 328.5 REAL days. But you would say that it will be 7 REAL YEARS.. right? Or do you expect people to know that you really mean 2520 days...

????

You can claim that between 444 and 443 BC there were 365 REAL days to account for. You only count 360 but from harvest to harvest there are 365 DAYS... in REALITY. Therefore no matter how they counted days back then WE KNOW there are 365.25 days to account for each year. You leaving out 5.25 days means that your calculations about the time and date CANNOT be right.

The other thing you didn't answer is that you never divulged why you choose the earliest date as the one that Daniel meant by the decree to rebuild the temple.

Using REAL years from the date Ezra actually went to Jerusalem to rebuild the city, 457/458, to year 29/30 (Jesus' death) is 486 and to the commission of the Gentiles by Paul is 490 years. This is with an 5BC birth date for Christ. Here is one chart that shows the breakdown: DANIEL'S 70x7 years - Shortened Chart

That seems much more sound than shortening the year by 5.25 days and never adding that time back in. It is as if those 257.25 days just disappeared.

Here is the hebrew calendar and ours now for a comparison:


As you can see they added another month to keep their months in time with the seasons just as we do (only over longer periods of years.) So prophetic years or not you STILL have to count the leap year days into REAL years... Those days change dates. There are 365.25 days in a year no matter which ones you call Feb 29th or March 1st. It is still a make up day. In the Hebrew, Babylonian, and Jewish calendar, this followed moon cycles. See here how that works: Judaism 101: Jewish Calendar

The bottom line is that no matter where you put those 257.25 days.. they passed and YOU ARE NOT COUNTING THEM!

You've made up the key to the prophecy that never existed in the first place. There is not one Hebrew scholar that I can find that will say there is a "prophetic year" of 360 days! A year is a year and has been since recording of these things began.

There is something wrong with the fact that you feel the need to accept this mathematical key that you can't even prove belongs in the first place. I can use several of these upon counting backwards to make any number of things look plausible.

The other problem in your analysis is that in Daniel there is no break between verse 26 and verse 27...

But that is minor compared to your mathematical calculations.
Wow... It's been a few years so it's like... Did I really write that? Good stuff.
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Old 05-28-2015, 11:58 AM
Zur
 
949 posts, read 648,594 times
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In Dan 9:24-27 we do not read about years, but about seven "weeks", which stand for years. If we want to know how many days for that "week" is counted, we can take the biblical year of the moon with 360 days. There is no need to take the days of the sun with 365 days. Than we have to convert it into real time to come to the crucifixion of the Messiah, which was between 30-33 AD. This is history and it happened.
The prophecy is divided in 3 parts, 7X7=49+62X7=483+1X7=490. After 69X7 the Messiah is crucified and if we take Nehemiah as starting point (445/444 BC) and if we take 483 moon years with 360 days we come to the time of 32/33. All other calculations do not work, so this must be the right one.
Now there are 1X7 left. To say that 70 AD the prophesy was fulfilled cannot be true, because there are 37 years at least between, so they admit that there must be a gap, but this gap is not 37 years, it is till the Lord Jesus comes back the second time and it includes the last 1X7 before His coming.
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Old 05-28-2015, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,666,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zur View Post
In Dan 9:24-27 we do not read about years, but about seven "weeks", which stand for years. If we want to know how many days for that "week" is counted, we can take the biblical year of the moon with 360 days. There is no need to take the days of the sun with 365 days. Than we have to convert it into real time to come to the crucifixion of the Messiah, which was between 30-33 AD. This is history and it happened.
The prophecy is divided in 3 parts, 7X7=49+62X7=483+1X7=490. After 69X7 the Messiah is crucified and if we take Nehemiah as starting point (445/444 BC) and if we take 483 moon years with 360 days we come to the time of 32/33. All other calculations do not work, so this must be the right one.
Now there are 1X7 left. To say that 70 AD the prophesy was fulfilled cannot be true, because there are 37 years at least between, so they admit that there must be a gap, but this gap is not 37 years, it is till the Lord Jesus comes back the second time and it includes the last 1X7 before His coming.
Moon years?

The calendar Daniel would have used was a mix of solar and lunar. This would allow their seasonal traditions to remain seasonal yet still account for 365 days in the year. We have an extra day because of the .25 but they would have had an extra month. Still 365.25 days in the year. Even the Egyptians using the lunar calendar added days to the end of the year.

Using less days to make your calculation fit is misleading and dishonest.
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Old 05-28-2015, 02:39 PM
 
5,133 posts, read 2,527,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zur View Post
In Dan 9:24-27 we do not read about years, but about seven "weeks", which stand for years. If we want to know how many days for that "week" is counted, we can take the biblical year of the moon with 360 days. There is no need to take the days of the sun with 365 days. Than we have to convert it into real time to come to the crucifixion of the Messiah, which was between 30-33 AD. This is history and it happened.
The prophecy is divided in 3 parts, 7X7=49+62X7=483+1X7=490. After 69X7 the Messiah is crucified and if we take Nehemiah as starting point (445/444 BC) and if we take 483 moon years with 360 days we come to the time of 32/33. All other calculations do not work, so this must be the right one.
Now there are 1X7 left. To say that 70 AD the prophesy was fulfilled cannot be true, because there are 37 years at least between, so they admit that there must be a gap, but this gap is not 37 years, it is till the Lord Jesus comes back the second time and it includes the last 1X7 before His coming.
The Christianized Jews left Jerusalem in the year 66 as per Jesus instructions at Luke 19 vs 43,44.
In the year 70 the Romans armies returned and destroyed apostate Jerusalem and its temple.

Earlier, in Ezekiel's day, God used the Babylonian forces to put the unfaithful Israelites into captivity for 70 years.

That past political/military use by God is a pattern that God will once again use the political/military world to go up against run-afoul religious groups - including unfaithful Christendom. - Judgment first starts with the religious ' house of God '
- 1st Peter 4:17

The final signal, so to speak, of 1st Thess. 5 vs 2,3 is when ' they ' ( powers that be ) will be saying Peace and Security or Peace and Safety as a precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill - Matthew 25 vs 31,32.
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Old 05-28-2015, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,666,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
The Christianized Jews left Jerusalem in the year 66 as per Jesus instructions at Luke 19 vs 43,44.
In the year 70 the Romans armies returned and destroyed apostate Jerusalem and its temple.

Earlier, in Ezekiel's day, God used the Babylonian forces to put the unfaithful Israelites into captivity for 70 years.

That past political/military use by God is a pattern that God will once again use the political/military world to go up against run-afoul religious groups - including unfaithful Christendom. - Judgment first starts with the religious ' house of God '
- 1st Peter 4:17

The final signal, so to speak, of 1st Thess. 5 vs 2,3 is when ' they ' ( powers that be ) will be saying Peace and Security or Peace and Safety as a precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill - Matthew 25 vs 31,32.
But what is your proof (from scripture) that this event is future?
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Old 05-29-2015, 04:59 AM
Zur
 
949 posts, read 648,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Moon years?

The calendar Daniel would have used was a mix of solar and lunar. This would allow their seasonal traditions to remain seasonal yet still account for 365 days in the year. We have an extra day because of the .25 but they would have had an extra month. Still 365.25 days in the year. Even the Egyptians using the lunar calendar added days to the end of the year.

Using less days to make your calculation fit is misleading and dishonest.
Daniel speaks of "weeks". Since when you have to add days or month to "weeks"? Revelation tells you that half of the last "week" has 1260 days, so all of the "weeks" have the same calculation. And this works to come to the crucifixion of Christ in 30-33 AD. If you have a better calculation, please present it.
This is history and happened and your 365.25 days do not work, it gives no solution at all, what you want to proof?
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Old 05-29-2015, 09:09 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,093 posts, read 23,892,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zur View Post
Daniel speaks of "weeks". Since when you have to add days or month to "weeks"? Revelation tells you that half of the last "week" has 1260 days, so all of the "weeks" have the same calculation. And this works to come to the crucifixion of Christ in 30-33 AD. If you have a better calculation, please present it.
This is history and happened and your 365.25 days do not work, it gives no solution at all, what you want to proof?
Perhaps it is based on the Genesis account of what a DAY is? When did mere mortals begin counting the days of a year? Truth is , does anyone really know what a year was in the 5th century BCE?
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Old 05-29-2015, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,666,149 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zur View Post
Daniel speaks of "weeks". Since when you have to add days or month to "weeks"? Revelation tells you that half of the last "week" has 1260 days, so all of the "weeks" have the same calculation. And this works to come to the crucifixion of Christ in 30-33 AD. If you have a better calculation, please present it.
This is history and happened and your 365.25 days do not work, it gives no solution at all, what you want to proof?
Judaism teaches that the start of this time is not the decree to build but the need to build. The destruction of the first temple to the destruction of the second exactly fits the timeline in Daniel. Read more from the source HERE.
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