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Old 06-25-2010, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,368,316 times
Reputation: 3735

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Fact 1: anyone, of any political "feather" is only interested in getting into a position of power, or maintaining their incumbent status. The unimaginable size of these global mega-corporations (BP, Exxon, Shell Oil, Mitsubishi, etc) means they have little to fear from any single government, of in the case of the US, they just buy their "most favored" status.

Fact 2:
George Soros is of course measurably more despicable than many others because he also supports socialist ideals, which, at their bottom line, simply mean getting the highest number of truly illiterate people dependent upon the state, and then essentially culturally enslaving them.

Fact 3: full market capitalism only promulgates a full-on rape of the earth, it's resources and it's marketplace, driven by ads and price fixing. all in support of those same uber-rich types who live in castles in the Mediterranean. With their Aston Martins, Bentleys and Italian speedboats & yachts.

If only the church could have pulled this all off, they'd have done so! God knows, they tried, for centuries, but their message now is too far down the path of gross illiteracy, at least here in the US. Bright-eyed observers & commentators like us have pretty much seen that one coming, and won't let them get a toe-hold now.

Oh yeah: Fact 4: God will not be helping you in Florida any time soon, Verna. As for the sky-is-falling "raining oil" announcement, could you elaborate a bit further, since hydrocarbons do not evaporate and then condense in the atmosphere to fall back to earth as rain.

If we re-elect some god-fearing prez next time around, we'll suffer from their rapacious, gold-hungry mentality at the total expense of the earth and it's far more deserving citizens, the defenseless wildlife and native plants. all so stockholders can gloat, and the capitallist-religious element can drive their big SUVs to church on Sunday. Oh yeah; and preach ID to our innocent children...

Sigh...

 
Old 06-25-2010, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,273,104 times
Reputation: 4279
I'll never understand the uncanny paradox between the extreme religious right who deny evolution; often citing natural selection and its "uncouth" and "brutal" ways while altogether maintaining that unrepentant free market Capitalism is the best economic plan a country can have. As though Capitalism (emphasis on the large 'C') is not just an economic plan but a type of government as well.

Interestingly enough, the same people advocating for this type of broadband Capitalism are also the ones who have driven the purchases of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged through the roof - and probably only read the first 100 pages of the 1200 page novel. Now, they automatically assume the position of Rand's Objectivist cult philosophy because they read the first hundred pages of a novel they probably don't understand. Oh, and they agree with Reaganomics too.

The bottom line is that with Reaganomics, the Randian philosophy, and unrepentant free market Capitalism, you have the perfect concoction of corporate natural selection. Whereby, we the people, the 99% of the country, are literally bottom feeding scavengers. Or, if you prefer, "parasites" as Rand called them. The top 1% of the country will feast, ravage and eat everything they can. Meanwhile, we the people, sit around and try to lick the sheen of blood from the mane of the lion's face.

Often enough, while screaming about anything to do with government interference as "socialist" in nature, these same people could not tell you a single philosophy as to the purpose of government. I tend to prefer the Locke/Jefferson theory. Whereby, Locke said in his Second Treatise of Government that without any form of government whatsoever, we would all have the perfect freedom to do whatever it is we wished to. We could literally murder, maim, rape, steal, plunder, pillage, and take whatever we want (sound familiar to a Capitalist government yet?) without means of recourse. Of course, the things we worked so hard to keep - our families, food, housing, etc... would always be in peril and at risk from anyone willing to take it. Thus, we the people, enact and promote governments to help us protect our, as Locke put it, "life, liberty, and estates." We do so at the risk of giving up some of our given freedoms. Those freedom "penalties" may come in the form of taxes, restrictions, and certain policing.

Of course, Jefferson modified Locke's theory of "life, liberty, and estates" to "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Sound familiar? Jefferson largely agreed, as do I, that the purpose of government is so that those who cannot protect their own freedoms still have a purposeful and meaningful way of pursuing their dreams of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." People called health care "socialist" but I call it a necessary means to protecting peoples pursuit of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Before people open their mouths and start spewing the rhetoric spawned from the fat face of Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck, I ask you to think about whether you prefer to be viewed as a "parasite" or as someone who wishes to pursue their happiness and dream about life and liberty. Government is not perfect, but I will take it over corporate natural selection that spills over into the political realm.

There is a purpose for government and though not everyone may agree with my philosophical ideas of it, at least I can say that I have a philosophical idea of what purpose it serves. That's probably better than 98% of Americans who classify political ideas in the same way evolution deniers classify species - "Socialist!" "Capitalist!" "Communist!" or "Monkey!" "Fish!" "Horse!"
 
Old 06-25-2010, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,969,943 times
Reputation: 5074
Verna is right about not lifting the Jones Act, though. I don't understand that, any more than I understand George W. Bush stating that he didn't want the other NATO countries to help in the Iraq war that he initiated. We'd rather try to do it ourselves, I suppose. Way too much pride/hubris. We need all the help we can get.
 
Old 06-25-2010, 03:11 PM
 
6,791 posts, read 4,069,569 times
Reputation: 671
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
I'll never understand the uncanny paradox between the extreme religious right who deny evolution; often citing natural selection and its "uncouth" and "brutal" ways while altogether maintaining that unrepentant free market Capitalism is the best economic plan a country can have. As though Capitalism (emphasis on the large 'C') is not just an economic plan but a type of government as well.

Interestingly enough, the same people advocating for this type of broadband Capitalism are also the ones who have driven the purchases of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged through the roof - and probably only read the first 100 pages of the 1200 page novel. Now, they automatically assume the position of Rand's Objectivist cult philosophy because they read the first hundred pages of a novel they probably don't understand. Oh, and they agree with Reaganomics too.

The bottom line is that with Reaganomics, the Randian philosophy, and unrepentant free market Capitalism, you have the perfect concoction of corporate natural selection. Whereby, we the people, the 99% of the country, are literally bottom feeding scavengers. Or, if you prefer, "parasites" as Rand called them. The top 1% of the country will feast, ravage and eat everything they can. Meanwhile, we the people, sit around and try to lick the sheen of blood from the mane of the lion's face.

Often enough, while screaming about anything to do with government interference as "socialist" in nature, these same people could not tell you a single philosophy as to the purpose of government. I tend to prefer the Locke/Jefferson theory. Whereby, Locke said in his Second Treatise of Government that without any form of government whatsoever, we would all have the perfect freedom to do whatever it is we wished to. We could literally murder, maim, rape, steal, plunder, pillage, and take whatever we want (sound familiar to a Capitalist government yet?) without means of recourse. Of course, the things we worked so hard to keep - our families, food, housing, etc... would always be in peril and at risk from anyone willing to take it. Thus, we the people, enact and promote governments to help us protect our, as Locke put it, "life, liberty, and estates." We do so at the risk of giving up some of our given freedoms. Those freedom "penalties" may come in the form of taxes, restrictions, and certain policing.

Of course, Jefferson modified Locke's theory of "life, liberty, and estates" to "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Sound familiar? Jefferson largely agreed, as do I, that the purpose of government is so that those who cannot protect their own freedoms still have a purposeful and meaningful way of pursuing their dreams of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." People called health care "socialist" but I call it a necessary means to protecting peoples pursuit of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Before people open their mouths and start spewing the rhetoric spawned from the fat face of Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck, I ask you to think about whether you prefer to be viewed as a "parasite" or as someone who wishes to pursue their happiness and dream about life and liberty. Government is not perfect, but I will take it over corporate natural selection that spills over into the political realm.

There is a purpose for government and though not everyone may agree with my philosophical ideas of it, at least I can say that I have a philosophical idea of what purpose it serves. That's probably better than 98% of Americans who classify political ideas in the same way evolution deniers classify species - "Socialist!" "Capitalist!" "Communist!" or "Monkey!" "Fish!" "Horse!"
Excellent post...many good points.

Honest government...All for it!

The corrupt governments (READ: Government Officials) we have...in the pocket of the Predator Corporations (READ: Corporate Officials)...no thanks!

The problem is simple--GREED. Put BIG $$$$$$$ into the equation and ethics take leave.

The system we have...with a slight tweak of the regulations...would be fine. But to do that keeps the guys embedded in the corrupt system from making millions/billions...so they lobby (throw $ around) the corrupt politicians to rule, or not rule, so they maintain their advantage. And the corrupt politicians have no problem with it. The Government Officials and Big Corporate Officials--two peas in a pod, for the most part...as it stands now.
 
Old 06-25-2010, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,418,309 times
Reputation: 841
[quote=Finn_Jarber;14771509]Maybe this belongs in the Politics forum, rather than here.

The Jones Act had nothing to do with us not purchasing the skimmers. The countries did not offer to help us, they offered to SELL their equipment to us at a very high price, and many were actually purchased from Holland. They are state of art skimmers, but the rest was nothing that US did not already have, so why should US spend the money to buy things from foreigners when the same equipment is available in US. I am tired of people playing political football with a national crises like this. No, Verna, I did not vote for Obama.

PS the money to Brazil is a LOAN, not a gift. They will pay back with interest.[/quote]...a link to prove what you say please.
 
Old 06-25-2010, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,418,309 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Gah - toxic oil spill rain - that is brutal. I wish there was something we could do. I'm fairly isolated from it (up here in Canada). We don't even get much media coverage of it - although this seems to have the potential of harming the entire planet.

In the other thread that was posted a couple weeks ago - the video in that thread was talking about how the oil was the least of the problems. There is actually many other toxins that come up with the oil - toxins that cause huge problems for humans - especially the elderly and young children. There was talk that the gulf coast may need to be evacuated at some point. Have you heard signs of that Verna?
Yes legoman...listen to this precious woman...to what she has to say...she lives at the tip of the point of Louisiana that is surrounded on three sides by the Gulf...she speaks of this horrible chemical in the surrounding air...


YouTube - Kindra Arnesan - Quoted on PBS Newshour 6/23/2010

...there is a "MEDIA-BLACK OUT"...they don't want the whole world to know what is really going on......but through media such as this...we can spread the truth...!...and look out for one another and warn one another.
 
Old 06-25-2010, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Florida
62,963 posts, read 34,302,543 times
Reputation: 10454
Quote:
...a link to prove what you say please.
You first.

Do not believe everything you hear in FOX & Friends, or right wing talk shows.

http://factcheck.org/2010/06/oil-spi...the-jones-act/

Q: Did Obama turn down foreign offers of assistance in cleaning up the Gulf oil spill? Did he refuse to waive Jones Act restrictions on foreign-flag vessels?
A: No to both questions. So far, five offers have been accepted and only one offer has been rejected. Fifteen foreign-flag vessels are working on the cleanup, and none required a waiver

the Jones Act has yet to be an issue in the response efforts. The Deepwater Horizon response team reported in a June 15 press release that there are 15 foreign flagged ships currently participating in the oil spill cleanup. None of them needed a waiver because the Jones Act does not apply. The Jones Act is a trade and commerce law that was enacted in 1920 as part of a larger Marine Merchant Act. It requires all trade delivered between U.S. ports to be carried in U.S. flagged vessels constructed in the United States and owned by American citizens. The law states its purpose is to develop a merchant marine for national defense and commerce.

Why was the Jones Act waived as part of the Hurricane Katrina response, and why hasn’t it been waived now? Katrina inflicted massive infrastructure damage, which restricted the availability of key resources. According to the Deepwater Horizon response team: "A Jones Act waiver was granted during Hurricane Katrina due to the significant disruption in the production and transportation of petroleum and/or refined petroleum products in the region during that emergency and the impact this had on national defense." The Deepwater Horizon spill has yet to affect infrastructure or oil and gas availability; the damage is environmental, and foreign vessels are approved for delivering resources and conducting offshore skimming. Although the Jones Act is currently not applicable, the federal government has taken steps to expedite the waiver process should the oil spill response require a Jones Act waiver for trade and commerce

Also, contrary to reports such as the one on "Fox & Friends," international assistance has been accepted. To date, 25 countries and four international organizations have offered support in the form of skimming vessels, containment and fire boom, technical assistance and response solutions, among others. A chart provided by the State Department shows that as of June 23 five offers had been accepted and 50 were under consideration — including multiple offers from a single country or entity. One offer had been declined: France offered a chemical dispersant that is not approved for use in the United States. President Barack Obama described this process in his May 27 press conference:

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 06-25-2010 at 03:57 PM..
 
Old 06-25-2010, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,418,309 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertJoe View Post
God bless you Verna....There are evil people who run the world today,& in their own mind they are god.But in this time when this man made disaster is being compounded by man made hubris & man made politics & man made incompetence...our God is watching.... & unless they repent,they will not escape God.God bless you Verna,& God is collecting your tears in a bottle
.........thank you DesertJoe...for your warm words of encouragement....it is knowing He is here with me that keeps me going on...without my LORD I wouldn't have hope for anything...He IS my joy...and His love makes this bitter pill easier to swallow....but I really feel we are out of time here...seek...learn...and teach everyone we know the truth.
 
Old 06-25-2010, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,418,309 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post

You first.
Finn...you made a statement...now prove it! Do not hijack this one. I will not speak with you again here unless you prove what you say. This thread is not to argue..it is to state facts!
 
Old 06-25-2010, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,418,309 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Q: Did Obama turn down foreign offers of assistance in cleaning up the Gulf oil spill? Did he refuse to waive Jones Act restrictions on foreign-flag vessels?
A: No to both questions. So far, five offers have been accepted and only one offer has been rejected. Fifteen foreign-flag vessels are working on the cleanup, and none required a waiver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
15 foreign flagged ships currently participating in the oil spill cleanup
...
15!!???????!! ships??!!!!!???...15...??????!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Why was the Jones Act waived as part of the Hurricane Katrina response, and why hasn’t it been waived now?
...Yea!!!......WHY???????
...oh...and just love this following explanation for why nothing has been done............read on!.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
The Deepwater Horizon spill has yet to affect infrastructure or oil and gas availability; the damage is environmental, and foreign vessels are approved for delivering resources and conducting offshore skimming. Although the Jones Act is currently not applicable, the federal government has
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
to expedite the waiver process should the oil spill response require a Jones Act waiver for trade and commerce
...OH! WELL!!! when EXACTLY WILL THAT BE !!!!!???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
To date, 25 countries and four international organizations have offered support in the form of skimming vessels, containment and fire boom, technical assistance and response solutions, among others. A chart provided by the State Department shows that as of June 23 five offers had been accepted and 50 were under consideration — including multiple offers from a single country or entity. One offer had been declined: France offered a chemical dispersant that is not approved for use in the United States. President Barack Obama described this process in his May 27 press conference
out of 25 countries offering their help...5 offers have been accepted...50 !!!!!!under consideration!!!!!!!......while 3,000,000,000 BILLION gallons of crude oil gush into the Gulf daily...

Thank you for proving exactly what I am saying!

Finn...understand something..I did not begin this thread to argue with you or anyone else...I am hurting...o.k....?...I am greiving...o.k...? I am upset....o.k...? and I do not have the patience to argue with you about this...and I am done with any argument whatsoever...DONE!

Last edited by Verna Perry; 06-25-2010 at 04:32 PM..
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