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Old 06-25-2010, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,273,961 times
Reputation: 4279

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
Excellent post...many good points.

Honest government...All for it!

The corrupt governments (READ: Government Officials) we have...in the pocket of the Predator Corporations (READ: Corporate Officials)...no thanks!

The problem is simple--GREED. Put BIG $$$$$$$ into the equation and ethics take leave.

The system we have...with a slight tweak of the regulations...would be fine. But to do that keeps the guys embedded in the corrupt system from making millions/billions...so they lobby (throw $ around) the corrupt politicians to rule, or not rule, so they maintain their advantage. And the corrupt politicians have no problem with it. The Government Officials and Big Corporate Officials--two peas in a pod, for the most part...as it stands now.
I agree that the government is largely corrupt and that corporate and special interest groups are largely responsible for it. The corruption is strife in both parties and largely affects the way legislation is made. To that, I am in absolute agreement.

However, there is another side to the political debate in America that is going on right now. Americans, largely ignorant of history and political theory, are being convinced by dishonest news organizations that what they are seeing is something akin to the Bolshevik Revolution. Any day now, they would have you think, we are going to be marching behind tanks down Pennsylvania Avenue as President Obama stands on the front balcony of the White House clapping as a new military regime salutes him while goose stepping.

Most of these same people could not tell you in what way Karl Marx referred to the upper or middle/lower classes (bourgeois and proletariat) and their respective places in society. Yet, they know that the current administration is socialist. Most of them could not tell you what the difference between a communist and a socialist is but they know the current administration is socialist.

Is Obama to blame for the oil spill? I really couldn't see how. Even if on the first day of his administration he put action into place to make sure that every oil well had emergency shutoff valves installed, it would have come with a deadline several years down the road. Chances are, this would have still happened.

Is he to blame for inaction after the spill? In some ways. I think he could have been quicker to get down there but I also don't see Bush, Palin, McCain, Jindal, or any other Republican demanding $20 billion from BP and getting it. In that regards, I think Obama did a pretty good job and my only hesitation is that it seems/feels like regardless of what the cost that $20 billion is what we're charging and that's it.

Did Obama stick his foot in his mouth a few weeks before the spill happened by saying he supported offshore drilling? I think so. I think that's definitely a fair criticism to make. Let's not forget, though... That criticism can also be said for that airhead from Alaska.

As far as the Jones Act goes... I don't understand the reasoning behind that and I would have to do further research as to why I think that wasn't done. As it stands now, I would preliminarily say that I agree it was an error of judgment but is it as grave as, say, invading a country that was purported to have weapons of mass destruction?

The bottom line is that the name calling and labeling of "socialism" is ridiculous, discredited, unfounded, and stupid. As I said... The people who spit those terms out probably couldn't even tell you what socialism even is. Chances are, they'd spit a stupid and cliche phrase out of their mouth such as "It's a redistribution of wealth."

 
Old 06-25-2010, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Florida
62,987 posts, read 34,311,857 times
Reputation: 10458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
...15!!???????!! ships??!!!!!???...15...??????!!!!!

...Yea!!!......WHY??????? ...oh...and just love this following explanation for why nothing has been done............read on!.....

...OH! WELL!!! when EXACTLY WILL THAT BE !!!!!???

out of 25 countries offering their help...5 offers have been accepted...50 under consideration......while 3,000,000,000 BILLION gallons of crude oil gush into the Guld daily...

Thank you for proving exactly what I am saying!

Finn...understand something..I did not begin this thread to argue with you or anyone else...I am hurting...o.k....?...I am greiving...o.k...? I am upset....o.k...? and I do not have the patience to argue with you abou this...and I am done with any argument whatsoever...DONE!

Why the aggression and hate? Like I said I am tired of people playing political football with this issue. You asked for a link, and I provided it and you thanked me by spitting in my face. Shame on you. Please do not bring this kind of political garbage to a Christian discussion board again.

One offer of assistance has been rejected, so where's the beef?

Why was Jones Act not waved? Because it didn't need to be waived. It was not an issue.

You are simply repeating the misinformation from FOX and right wing radio hosts, and those stories have been proven false.

No, I am not here to argue either, so don't bother replying. Your aggressiveness is disturbing.
 
Old 06-25-2010, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,489,911 times
Reputation: 438
Verna, I can understand why you are so angry, but this goes back much further than Obama. Trust me when I say I have been angry for MANY, MANY years over things that go much deeper than that oil spill. And I can probably say this without much argument that millions of people around the world could care less about this oil spill. They are too busy trying to survive (financially and physically). America and her allies have caused much devastation around the globe through their economic policies, and nobody blinks an eye (well, some do, but they don't get very far in their retaliation).

I HATE with a passion what goes on around the GLOBE, not just here in the States, but I'm truly sorry about the Gulf. ALL of it breaks my heart, and we are in deep trouble. Our hands our tied, and everybody knows it. It's been like boiling a frog.

Last edited by herefornow; 06-25-2010 at 05:09 PM..
 
Old 06-25-2010, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,419,045 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Verna, I can understand how angry you are, but this goes back much further than Obama. Trust me when I say I have been angry for MANY, MANY years over things that go much deeper than that oil spill. And I can probably say this without much argument that millions of people areound the world could care less about this oil spill. They are too busy trying to survive (financially and physically). America and her allies have caused much devastation around the globe through their economic policies, and nobody blinks an eye (well, some do, but they don't get very far in their retaliation).

I HATE with a passion what goes on around the GLOBE, not just here in the States, but I'm truly sorry about the Gulf. ALL of it breaks my heart, and we are in deep trouble. Our hands our tied, and everybody knows it. It's been like boiling a frog.
I know herefornow...that it surely didn't begin with obama...but he is in the "HOT" seat now...today...and what he does and doesn't do now..is what we have to live with now.

Thank you for understanding where I am right now...it is like boiling a frog...and now a hurricane is on the way...our first tropical depression will be heading into the Gulf this weekend...this will stop all production...all clean-up...for the gail force winds....now...there are serious concerns that this tropical depression could bring oil all over the surrounding land...pure devistation.............we may never get our lives back as they were ever again.
 
Old 06-25-2010, 05:33 PM
 
4,253 posts, read 5,440,869 times
Reputation: 10299
It makes me want to cry to see what has happened to the Gulf of Mexico, just dreadful. This world has got to change and in order to do that people need to start thinking for themselves, stop letting the TV or those in "authority" do the thinking for you. I'm sure that the point of the OP was to make us see that the "end is nigh" or something biblical like that, but really that is just an idea that makes you feel you have no control over what is happening and that it is somehow meant to be. It just allows them to get on with their business of sucking the life out of this planet while you point to your bibles and say it was foretold, we can do nothing to stop it.

Events in my own country over the last few days show that governments have no real power. Our Prime Minister was ousted yesterday, overnight just gone. Is it a coincidence that this happened as he was trying to put a tax on the big multi national mining companies currently raping this land? I don't think so. Suddenly the tax is off the table pending further "negotiation" and what is everyone saying about it? "We have our first ever female Prime Minister, isn't it marvelous? Let's write stories about her hair style!!"


YouTube - Midnight Oil - River Runs Red (live)
 
Old 06-25-2010, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,489,911 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
I know herefornow...that it surely didn't begin with obama...but he is in the "HOT" seat now...today...and what he does and doesn't do now..is what we have to live with now.

Thank you for understanding where I am right now...it is like boiling a frog...and now a hurricane is on the way...our first tropical depression will be heading into the Gulf this weekend...this will stop all production...all clean-up...for the gail force winds....now...there are serious concerns that this tropical depression could bring oil all over the surrounding land...pure devistation.............we may never get our lives back as they were ever again.
I started worrying and then panicking about this before anybody else did. Months ago. What the heck happens when lightning hits this stuff, not just on water, but on land. It really is quite disturbing. Nightmarish, even.
 
Old 06-25-2010, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,188 posts, read 20,997,302 times
Reputation: 22134
Verna - Why did you post this here as opposed to the political forum? I don't mind discussing religion and philosophy - but I don't come on here to hear disparaging, hateful, ignorant, things said about our president. I think it's very disprespectful. You completely belittle and degrade him repeatedly. It's very offputting.
 
Old 06-25-2010, 05:57 PM
 
6,791 posts, read 4,070,207 times
Reputation: 671
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
I agree that the government is largely corrupt and that corporate and special interest groups are largely responsible for it. The corruption is strife in both parties and largely affects the way legislation is made. To that, I am in absolute agreement.

However, there is another side to the political debate in America that is going on right now. Americans, largely ignorant of history and political theory, are being convinced by dishonest news organizations that what they are seeing is something akin to the Bolshevik Revolution. Any day now, they would have you think, we are going to be marching behind tanks down Pennsylvania Avenue as President Obama stands on the front balcony of the White House clapping as a new military regime salutes him while goose stepping.

Most of these same people could not tell you in what way Karl Marx referred to the upper or middle/lower classes (bourgeois and proletariat) and their respective places in society. Yet, they know that the current administration is socialist. Most of them could not tell you what the difference between a communist and a socialist is but they know the current administration is socialist.

Is Obama to blame for the oil spill? I really couldn't see how. Even if on the first day of his administration he put action into place to make sure that every oil well had emergency shutoff valves installed, it would have come with a deadline several years down the road. Chances are, this would have still happened.

Is he to blame for inaction after the spill? In some ways. I think he could have been quicker to get down there but I also don't see Bush, Palin, McCain, Jindal, or any other Republican demanding $20 billion from BP and getting it. In that regards, I think Obama did a pretty good job and my only hesitation is that it seems/feels like regardless of what the cost that $20 billion is what we're charging and that's it.

Did Obama stick his foot in his mouth a few weeks before the spill happened by saying he supported offshore drilling? I think so. I think that's definitely a fair criticism to make. Let's not forget, though... That criticism can also be said for that airhead from Alaska.

As far as the Jones Act goes... I don't understand the reasoning behind that and I would have to do further research as to why I think that wasn't done. As it stands now, I would preliminarily say that I agree it was an error of judgment but is it as grave as, say, invading a country that was purported to have weapons of mass destruction?

The bottom line is that the name calling and labeling of "socialism" is ridiculous, discredited, unfounded, and stupid. As I said... The people who spit those terms out probably couldn't even tell you what socialism even is. Chances are, they'd spit a stupid and cliche phrase out of their mouth such as "It's a redistribution of wealth."
We need a hybrid system.

Regulated (Controlled) Free Enterprise.

Half the problem is not enforcing present regs...ditto for the immigration problem.

How can any company justify compensating any one person hundreds of millions for a year and not consider that a breech of fiduciary responsibility to the stockholders that are looking for dividends and increased share value? Corps paying out a billion collectively to 20 or so people that make up the Exec Officers and Board of Directors, at the same time they blow hundreds of millions more of the corps cash on their party-time costs. They basically embezzle all the corps money under the guise of their "pay and bonus"...and in the process bankrupt the company...then have the nerve to look for a govt (taxpayer) bailout. Their govt cronies give it to them...let them stay...and the next year they steal ("pay" themselves) even more money. WTF kind of "legal scam" is that? Simple fix--You want to be able to sell pieces of paper (stock) and generate heaps of cash on speculaion...no publicly traded company can have anybody compensated more than 50X the lowest paid worker. And no entity (person, fund, etc) can trade more than 10,000 shares of any one stock in a 24 hour period. No company can have more than 1 million shares of it's stock traded in a 24 hr period.

Social Security and Medicare-- Consider all income. No cap. Pay on every dime. No cut-off at a little over 100K. You make millions...you pay on millions. You make 10s/100s of millions...pay on that amount.

A "Fair Tax" type Federal income tax---The "underground economy" will now pay taxes on 95% of their income. No more "under the table" pay... cash earners claiming a fraction, if any, of their income...escorts, pimps, drug dealers, private gambling, hitmen, loansharks and everyone else making shady unclaimed cash...will now all be contributing to the tax coffers. Save the money on the IRS that everybody loves so much, to boot.

BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahhhh...I'm getting heartburn thinking about it. Time to get my butt in gear and do some work. Friday night and all...ya know.
 
Old 06-25-2010, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Florida
62,987 posts, read 34,311,857 times
Reputation: 10458
Verna, if you were only voicing your concern about the oil spill, then I apologize for my earlier comments. I said what I said because your posts sounded like all the other anti-obama rants I see at the 'politics' forum, so I took it as if you were using this spill as an excuse to attack the president. If that was not your intention, then I was wrong.

Like I said, I did not vote for Obama, and nor will I in 2012, but I am sick to the stomach at all the misinformation and propaganda against him. If you thought it was bad during Bush years, I can tell you it is far worse now, and it sets this country on a very dangerous path. There are "news" sources such as FOX and talk show hosts who will say anything true or false as long as that is what their listeners want to hear. Yes, they sell propaganda, and the people who hate the president thirst for anything that is said against him, and they provide them with what they want to hear. I have never seen anything like this before.

Yes, I worry about the spill too since I live in Florida, but I worry about the country as whole much more than this spill. The spill is nothing compared to the division in this country. The political opponents and their followers would rather see the country burn to ashes rather than to admit that their opponents did something right.
 
Old 06-25-2010, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,419,045 times
Reputation: 841
...the toxicity of the dispersant being used (to keep hidden from the American public, the full, and tragic extent of this gush of oil, that is now estimated to be over 2.9 Million gallons a day)...and its effect on ALL life...human...animal...and plant...the dispersant is 4X's more toxic than oil...



YouTube - Russian Scientists Warn: Toxic Rain Could Destroy North America/ Due to BP Chemical??

...all the residents of Florida...Alabama...Mississippi...and Louisiana could be evacuated...should this become worse than it already is...
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