U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-26-2010, 06:35 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 10,012,239 times
Reputation: 58210

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Those kinds of thoughts are one of the reasons I started questioning what I was told. Researching, delving into languages, and putting some puzzle pieces together is how I came to UR. The Old Testament guys did not do as they were told, and they did not show mercy to others around them. They did not show anybody how God worked, which is what they were supposed to do. They misinterpreted what He told them, looked at Him through human eyes, and failed to see the big picture. They thought life came from their scriptures. They killed and took advantage of not only outsiders, but even their own people. I believe that is why Jesus said, "if Sodom had seen............she would still be standing today."

Nobody got it right. Not the Jews, not the Christians. Not in B.C., not in A.D. He concludeth ALL in unbelief, so he might have mercy on ALL. It's all about mercy, and we are ALL going to need it.

God's plan is much bigger than any of us can possibly imagine. And I believe it will be a lesson to all, even his fallen angels. His wisdom will be made known even at the highest levels, and all creatures will one day worship before
the throne.

I'm sure God left out a couple of crucial pieces of info for a reason.
Those kinds of thoughts are what led me to UR also. ET makes absolutely no sense when you really think about it. People who have never heard of Christ are damned to an eternal fiery hell? I don't think so. It IS about mercy herefornow, and God says in His Word that He WILL have mercy on us ALL. Scriptures prove that God will reconcile ALL to Himself. And it's the only thing that makes sense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-26-2010, 09:14 AM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,558,029 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
To the contrary. God who created the universe with but a word, is quite able to have put into His divine decree in eternity past based on His omniscience, the provison to get the Gospel to those who would respond to it. Geographical isolation is no problem for God.

THE HEATHEN?
So in your world God decided ahead of time who would get to hear the Gospel based on knowing who would respond?Is this total silliness REALLY what you are saying?You are trying to tell intelligent people that there was not one person in all of N or S America,Australia,and all the ocean islands of the Pacific who would have responded to the Gospel before techology enabled missionaries to get there?How very,very convenient that the willingness to accept the Gospel by the "heathen",as many have done,just so happened to correspond exactly to the timing of men developing the technology to get to them.

Your post shows you not to be worthy of serious consideration in future posts.No one with a thinking and intelligent mind could believe this.

But this is a PERFECT illustration of a fundamental mindset.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 12:44 PM
 
Location: missouri
1,179 posts, read 1,211,250 times
Reputation: 151
God selects the ones who are to know. It isn't a universal knowledge in the sense that all who hear believe-all can hear if told and heard (greek thought was reaching in similarity to the christian, god is represented in the reason, or it was coming towards it, see Hegel) but not believed. If they don't hear they can't believe (does any one use a bible anymore? Or does one just use the beautiful thoughts engraved in their souls, ahhhhhhh?). If one thinks about the concept god, obviously, the thing that is in conformity with the concept can make all believe or the concept makes no sense, or make all hear anyway, and can withhold it as well-god is the only free thing. Information does not create acceptance. When christ was here, and the crowd was pressing in and many touching him, only the gentile woman was healed when she touched him. Many are blind, through whatever or are born that way, that guy that jesus made mud from his spit and healed him was the one that was healed, not all the others. Why? For the glory of god-imagine, a guy suffering in that day and age blind, just so god could get some glory. Because you are all dead (the soul that sins dies), you are all condemned anyway-john 3:18, the forgotten verse (that is what death is, the return to nothingness-if you are an atheist, go somewhere else as you know nothing here and have nothing to contribute here except your oft repeated ubiquitous "I don't believe in such things"; good for you). You universalist make the mistake to think this is all about you and then you jack it up into the infinite race. Numbers always impress, so one thinks god could not possibly cast off many, perhaps not enough time so he will forgo the bad stuff and then you try and trap god in love (god is love, there is not a concept of such a thing that stands outside of god that he must conform to; if you define this love, not ours and of course you are using yours and trying to force god into it, it has to be structured from what he reveals himself as; of course, all of you on a higher astral plane that have no need for book revelations can get some other type of one direct into you plane consciousness-bad gas, I assume). The god concept has time, is time, so he has plenty of it. He can make a billion abrahams if he wants, or rocks shout, that is the prerogative of the god, and it is also the prerogative of the god to not accept some of what he makes; and this is exactly what he says he will do and it is a theme through out the entire bible. As far as information goes, it goes where it will, like the spirit, because the spirit backs it up and makes it hearable-one can hear but the spirit "opens" the ears; is that not what jesus told peter? God sends it and with holds it as he sees fit and if he wants a whole area devoid of it, well that is the god's choice (if in the end he wants everyone as his bride, that is also his choice, after all, our time is not god's time); he has the freedom to do this just as jesus relates that through that whole period of ignorance that only one was cleansed of leprosy and only that woman with the prophet ate well (rejecting the OT as many of you do makes you ignoramuses). The decision to make such a decision for eternal ideas, or hearing such a doctrine is beyond a man (that dumb ass idea of free will that denies the death of men, has really botched this all up), how can one decide such a thing when one is dead and hostile? So one just shoves everyone in-Ocum's razor? It is a little more complex and one should think a little more complex if one is a human being. Man always follows god here, the decision has to be made and is required of dead men, god makes it first for those he wants to, and then, and only then, can one then decide for god, this returns dignity to man, and brings him into what evey tom, dick, and harry preaches about now, partnership with god. Universalists make men nothing-just a big mass to be treated as a mass and individuals count for nothing; no wills, no thoughts, no soul, no respect; just the hopeless dead men that they are and leaves them dead. Soon this information will be gone from the US, just as it left europe, it was in the middle east before, maybe now in africa or china, and then it will leave there as well. It is not veterinarian science information. You have no control of this at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 12:50 PM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,558,029 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by allen antrim View Post
God selects the ones who are to know. It isn't a universal knowledge in the sense that all who hear believe-all can hear if told and heard (greek thought was reaching in similarity to the christian, god is represented in the reason, or it was coming towards it, see Hegel) but not believed. If they don't hear they can't believe (does any one use a bible anymore? Or does one just use the beautiful thoughts engraved in their souls, ahhhhhhh?). If one thinks about the concept god, obviously, the thing that is in conformity with the concept can make all believe or the concept makes no sense, or make all hear anyway, and can withhold it as well-god is the only free thing. Information does not create acceptance. When christ was here, and the crowd was pressing in and many touching him, only the gentile woman was healed when she touched him. Many are blind, through whatever or are born that way, that guy that jesus made mud from his spit and healed him was the one that was healed, not all the others. Why? For the glory of god-imagine, a guy suffering in that day and age blind, just so god could get some glory. Because you are all dead (the soul that sins dies), you are all condemned anyway-john 3:18, the forgotten verse (that is what death is, the return to nothingness-if you are an atheist, go somewhere else as you know nothing here and have nothing to contribute here except your oft repeated ubiquitous "I don't believe in such things"; good for you). You universalist make the mistake to think this is all about you and then you jack it up into the infinite race. Numbers always impress, so one thinks god could not possibly cast off many, perhaps not enough time so he will forgo the bad stuff and then you try and trap god in love (god is love, there is not a concept of such a thing that stands outside of god that he must conform to; if you define this love, not ours and of course you are using yours and trying to force god into it, it has to be structured from what he reveals himself as; of course, all of you on a higher astral plane that have no need for book revelations can get some other type of one direct into you plane consciousness-bad gas, I assume). The god concept has time, is time, so he has plenty of it. He can make a billion abrahams if he wants, or rocks shout, that is the prerogative of the god, and it is also the prerogative of the god to not accept some of what he makes; and this is exactly what he says he will do and it is a theme through out the entire bible. As far as information goes, it goes where it will, like the spirit, because the spirit backs it up and makes it hearable-one can hear but the spirit "opens" the ears; is that not what jesus told peter? God sends it and with holds it as he sees fit and if he wants a whole area devoid of it, well that is the god's choice (if in the end he wants everyone as his bride, that is also his choice, after all, our time is not god's time); he has the freedom to do this just as jesus relates that through that whole period of ignorance that only one was cleansed of leprosy and only that woman with the prophet ate well (rejecting the OT as many of you do makes you ignoramuses). The decision to make such a decision for eternal ideas, or hearing such a doctrine is beyond a man (that dumb ass idea of free will that denies the death of men, has really botched this all up), how can one decide such a thing when one is dead and hostile? So one just shoves everyone in-Ocum's razor? It is a little more complex and one should think a little more complex if one is a human being. Man always follows god here, the decision has to be made and is required of dead men, god makes it first for those he wants to, and then, and only then, can one then decide for god, this returns dignity to man, and brings him into what evey tom, dick, and harry preaches about now, partnership with god. Universalists make men nothing-just a big mass to be treated as a mass and individuals count for nothing; no wills, no thoughts, no soul, no respect; just the hopeless dead men that they are and leaves them dead. Soon this information will be gone from the US, just as it left europe, it was in the middle east before, maybe now in africa or china, and then it will leave there as well. It is not veterinarian science information. You have no control of this at all.
So there you have it folks.God decides who is allowed to hear,and who will be allowed to believe.

The very sad thing is that this actually makes sense to those who have willingly given up the power of reason and independent thought.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 01:24 PM
 
Location: missouri
1,179 posts, read 1,211,250 times
Reputation: 151
Yes god decides things, a very sad thing indeed (!)-this statement reveals where people's hearts really are. What a useless state the christian has fallen into, like poor salt! Actually, if any one does the work of theology, and from heart truth throbs I would expect none, one will find I moved rationally, with reason, within the work of theology, and with independent thought (I used the concept of the revealed, connected the thoughts and made conclusions. The one that critiqued me could not critique me at specific points but instead made a personal attack on my person, obviously using the ol' ploy of discrediting me rather than my work. Anyone acquainted with reason, could begin to dissect my work on a point by point basis using theology, not new age walmart book shelf drivel; but as I have learned, as someone once said, the god gave us language to reveal our thoughts, but the truth is we use language to conceal the fact that we have none.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 05:23 PM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,558,029 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by allen antrim View Post
Yes god decides things, a very sad thing indeed (!)-this statement reveals where people's hearts really are. What a useless state the christian has fallen into, like poor salt! Actually, if any one does the work of theology, and from heart truth throbs I would expect none, one will find I moved rationally, with reason, within the work of theology, and with independent thought (I used the concept of the revealed, connected the thoughts and made conclusions. The one that critiqued me could not critique me at specific points but instead made a personal attack on my person, obviously using the ol' ploy of discrediting me rather than my work. Anyone acquainted with reason, could begin to dissect my work on a point by point basis using theology, not new age walmart book shelf drivel; but as I have learned, as someone once said, the god gave us language to reveal our thoughts, but the truth is we use language to conceal the fact that we have none.


Who needs to bother with a point by point rebuttal of your beliefs,when exposing the fact that God has supposedly predetermined who is allowed to believe,and who is doomed to disbelieve,is all that is necessary?I don't need to do a point by point dissection of the Santa Claus story to show it's silliness either.I can simply point to flying reindeer and dispense with all the rest of the points.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,434,540 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
Who needs to bother with a point by point rebuttal of your beliefs,when exposing the fact that God has supposedly predetermined who is allowed to believe,and who is doomed to disbelieve,is all that is necessary?I don't need to do a point by point dissection of the Santa Claus story to show it's silliness either.I can simply point to flying reindeer and dispense with all the rest of the points.
Another UR promoter that can't back their statements up with the scriptures. Why do you even bother?

Point away...see what the flock has to say!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 05:37 PM
 
21,845 posts, read 16,691,085 times
Reputation: 8666
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
So in your world God decided ahead of time who would get to hear the Gospel based on knowing who would respond?Is this total silliness REALLY what you are saying?You are trying to tell intelligent people that there was not one person in all of N or S America,Australia,and all the ocean islands of the Pacific who would have responded to the Gospel before techology enabled missionaries to get there?How very,very convenient that the willingness to accept the Gospel by the "heathen",as many have done,just so happened to correspond exactly to the timing of men developing the technology to get to them.

Your post shows you not to be worthy of serious consideration in future posts.No one with a thinking and intelligent mind could believe this.

But this is a PERFECT illustration of a fundamental mindset.
No. Those who God knows will respond will absolutely have the Gospel presented to them. But in an area where there nothing but negitive volition, God is not responsible to get the gospel to them. Where there is positive volition at the point of God consciousness, God will get the Gospel to that area, and then others will have an opportunity to hear it even though God knows they won't respond to it.

You need to check your history and see how effective evangelism has been in ancient times.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 05:45 PM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,558,029 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No. Those who God knows will respond will absolutely have the Gospel presented to them. But in an area where there nothing but negitive volition, God is not responsible to get the gospel to them. Where there is positive volition at the point of God consciousness, God will get the Gospel to that area, and then others will have an opportunity to hear it even though God knows they won't respond to it.

You need to check your history and see how effective evangelism has been in ancient times.
Show me anything scriptural to support this.

In addition,if this were true,then there would be independent groups of believers that had sprung up around the world BEFORE any Christian missionaries showed up.Show me cases,PROVABLE cases,not anecdotal stories,of groups of Christians who came into being around the time of Christ and existed until missionaries discovered them when the missionaries got there.Otherwise,your claim is merely your own imaginings and excuses to cover a difficult issue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 05:51 PM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,558,029 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Another UR promoter that can't back their statements up with the scriptures. Why do you even bother?

Point away...see what the flock has to say!
No,I am not a UR who tries to back up what I say with scripture.I am simply someone asking sensible questions.Ones you fail to answer with anything resembling a decent response.It all simply boils down to "the Bible says so",and then the rational thought process stops for ET'ers at that point.But if you want me to point away,then simply respond to post 12 above.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top