U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-26-2010, 05:57 PM
 
Location: missouri
1,179 posts, read 1,210,741 times
Reputation: 151

Advertisements

What losers the world is full of, big time posters, but can't even rebut a historical doctrine that plenty have, or tried, and then bring santa in and claim one doesn't have time; the tea is boiling! That is it, confuse the categories (one who knew reason would not do such things), so one sounds the genius and stumps the the simple minded, and then reveals one's ignorance-to any thoughtful person; to any one who spends time with this sort of thinking. Obviously we are dealing with many who know the world completely inside and out, but can't even deal in theology, simple theology at that. One does not even know the doctrines, but knows all things theologically; one does not even know simple reason; but knows what is reasonable (I would suggest to all the mr spocks who when they are stumped and they accuse everyone else of lacking reason, to read Susan Hack, it is easier than Hegel's logic), but one knows santa, how quaint! Is there someone out there who really reads and thinks theology: I am on a christian thread am I not? If so then why is this stuff not in a theological system? It is amazing how atheists, or atheist wanna bes, think they can wade into theology and discuss it. And then to bring up santa, and think they made a point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-26-2010, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,955 posts, read 22,099,030 times
Reputation: 10687
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
If,as is claimed,it is necessary for a person to accept Christ in order to avoid an eternity in hell,then why doesn't God make sure everyone knows this and has the ability to make this decision based on knowledge of God's true character (as opposed to the image given by child abusing priests,Fred Phelps,or Jimmy Swaggart)?
I was recently told by an ETer on this forum that God does make sure of this, and He gives everybody, as they draw their last breath, this knowledge. That's absolutely ludicrous, IMO, but it's what I was told.

Quote:
Why,on what would be THE most important question,did God not make it known and still make it known universally?And He hasn't.Peoples around the world from the time of Christ have had no knowledge of Christ except when mostly white missionaries showed up,often in the company of soldiers who proceeded to display their Christianity by slaughtering them.WHY?Why did,and do,people exist who never had knowledge of Christ to make a decision about Him?Can you do better than an evangelist in my church,who answered this with the statement "well,that's just tough luck on them".

Please explain why, in this all important decision,for MOST of the Christian era the information concerning this decision was never available to most of the world's population.
Okay, so I'm definitely not an ETer, so maybe I shouldn't be responding to your question at all, but I believe that God does have a plan whereby everyone will know His true character, understand the gospel of Jesus Christ, recognize that Jesus did, in fact, atone for their sins and wants to give them the opportunity to be reconciled to God, and actually have a choice as to whether or not to accept or reject the message of salvation. I just don't believe it's going to happen prior to death for most people. Billions have lived and died without knowing a thing about Christianity, but the final curtain does not fall at death. Nor do we go immediately to Heaven upon death. Our spirits continue to exist as cognizant entities apart from our physical bodies until the time comes for us to be resurrected. For the righteous, this state of existance will be like paradise; it will be a realm where there is peace and rest. For the wicked, it will be a prison of sorts. They will await the resurrection in a state of anguish and torment. But for those who knew nothing of God or of Jesus Christ during their lifetimes, this period of time is when they will have the opportunity to learn, understand, and accept what they had no chance to learn during their mortality. And as they come to accept their Savior's Atonement, they too will enter into a state of paradise. By the time we stand before God to be judged, everyone who has ever lived will have had the opportunity to play on a level playing field, so to speak, and will have been able to make an informed decision as to what they want to believe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 06:07 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,164,770 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post

Why, on what would be THE most important question,did God not make it known and still make it known universally?And He hasn't....

Please explain why, in this all important decision, for MOST of the Christian era the information concerning this decision was never available to most of the world's population.
On what basis do you think God didn't? He did it twice:
  1. He told Adam and Eve
  2. Everybody knew it after the flood
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 06:09 PM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,557,049 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
On what basis do you think God didn't? He did it twice:
  1. He told Adam and Eve
  2. Everybody knew it after the flood
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
Then please explain why there were no Christians among all the native peoples of the Americas or Australia prior to the coming of the Christian missionaries?Why wasn't there proto-Christian people and religions simply waiting to hear the name of the divine being they had learned about without evangelism when the Europeans came to these places?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 06:20 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,164,770 times
Reputation: 1308
At some point, their fore-fathers reject the truth. As God said:

Exodus 34:7
"Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation."

I suppose one way of doing that would be to not allow the truth be known. The sin of unbelief can be very generational.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
Then please explain why there were no Christians among all the native peoples of the Americas or Australia prior to the coming of the Christian missionaries?Why wasn't there proto-Christian people and religions simply waiting to hear the name of the divine being they had learned about without evangelism when the Europeans came to these places?
Let me ask you this, where did the notion that God owes man something come from?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
Reputation: 420
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Read that? It did not say that God sent His Son in order to be fair. It did not say that He sent His Son in order to be just. It did not say that He sent His Son out of a moral obligation to mankind. It says that He sent His Son because HE WANTED TO. Why? BECAUSE HE LOVES US. That is the ONLY REASON why God made it possible for you to be reconciled with Him.

And that is also why we should not be so cowardly in proclaiming that there is only one Name by which men can be saved: Jesus Christ.

Instead of trying to accommodate the PRIDE of people who are offended in their arrogance as to why their religious traditions are not as valid as ours and why theirs cannot lead to salvation, and since there are so many good decent moral kind pious people in their traditions and cultures, we should be using this knowledge to inform such people, and everyone else, that God is not obligated to offer you salvation in your religion. God is not obligated to offer you salvation in your tradition. God is not obligated to offer everyone or even anyone in your culture a shot at salvation. God has no obligations to you at all. God is not in your debt, He is beholden to you in no way, shape, or form.

Therefore, God has every right to create ONE salvation plan, Jesus Christ, and give that salvation plan first to ONE PEOPLE, the Jews of Israel, and then for the most part sit back and let events play out … for first the Jew and then the Gentile to accept or reject the true gospel and choose or refuse to spread that gospel as they will, and then to reward or punish the creation of His own Hands accordingly at a time and in a manner of His own choosing. So Christians, whenever confronted with the lie – and it is a lie – by someone else or even within yourself regarding the fairness of Christian doctrine, strengthen yourself and oppose the lie.

Rom 1:18-20 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 07:07 PM
 
Location: New England
32,221 posts, read 21,094,471 times
Reputation: 2274
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post

Rom 1:18-20 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

So what was your excuse for not believing until God opened your eyes ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
So what was your excuse for not believing until God opened your eyes ?
No excuse, as Paul put....none. I was dead, but now I am alive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 08:07 PM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,557,049 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by allen antrim View Post
Your the one saying I am wrong, you come up with it, am I supposed to do your work as well?
If this is directed at me,my question was simply what you wanted me to rebut.Is that too tough?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top