U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-26-2010, 01:19 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,880,277 times
Reputation: 642

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub-Blue View Post
How many thinks its more physical then spiritual and that it can be controlled spiritually or only with medication?, or both only?

thank you!

Overview
Bipolar disorder involves periods of excitability (mania) alternating with periods of depression. The "mood swings" between mania and depression can be very abrupt.

Symptoms
The manic phase may last from days to months and can include the following symptoms:
  • Agitation or irritation
  • Elevated mood
    • Hyperactivity
    • Increased energy
    • Lack of self-control
    • Racing thoughts
  • Inflated self-esteem (delusions of grandeur, false beliefs in special abilities)
  • Little need for sleep
  • Over-involvement in activities
  • Poor temper control
  • Reckless behavior
    • Binge eating, drinking, and/or drug use
    • Impaired judgment
    • Sexual promiscuity
    • Spending sprees
  • Tendency to be easily distracted
I think the diagnosis of this and many other "mental conditions" are extremely controversial and their usefulness and accuracy wide open to dispute. If you research the history of the DSM you may come to a similar conclusion.

Had the DSM existed in the days of Jesus Christ I suspect he would have been heavily medicated and diagnosed with numerous "disorders" as defined in the DSM, or at the very least placed somewhere on the "bipolar spectrum."

His mother Mary and stepfather Joseph would likely both have been diagnosed with some form of psychosis.

I don't even want to think about what they would have done with John the Baptist.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-26-2010, 01:20 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,478,497 times
Reputation: 212
Meds operate only to suppress the symptoms. the symptoms are indeed physical, and symptoms can be chained up/controlled by drugs, which act as the prisons and chains which people in other cultures use for the mentally disturbed and demon possessed and oppressed.
There is a lack of understanding of the spiritual world in the "modern" world, and the powers we wrestle with. That being said, since the western Church does not have the Living Spirit dwelling in the midst of so many professing Churches, and therefore no miracles, then by all means, the only recourse is the chain and prison of drugs, until death.
If one wants help from Jesus, then they have to/must seek a living Church, where the Living Spirit is present in power and in the truth of His word, to set men free from all bondages.
Here is what a living Church of Jesus Christ looks like, in deliverance and miracles and healings. Many people from all over the world come for healing and miracles, to be set free from many physical and mental disorders [which spiritual and mental always manifest in the physical body].

The TB Joshua Blog
Emmanuel TV | Home
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 02:13 PM
 
7,817 posts, read 10,723,591 times
Reputation: 3457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
[color=RoyalBlue]

I think bi-polar 'disorder' is as common as bread.

We are prone to mood swings


Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
Perhaps this is true in your own professional experience but there are other qualified mental health practitioners who disagree with that statement. I have researched this area for many years (albeit as a lay researcher) and corresponded with some of them.

Moreover, from a Christian and Jewish perspective, God is capable of performing any miracle of His choosing. This would include curing of any condition whatsoever--including "bipolar disorder."

In fact that would be a relatively minor miracle compared to miracles such as walking on water, causing limbs to miraculousy regrow, and raising the dead.
June is not of the belief that bipolar is as common as one perhaps thinks, unless we are talking about those who are misdiagnosed; something that can and does happen fairly often. We are also not talking about just "mood swings" the likes of which the average individual is naturally prone to by either situational of physical/biological circumstances upon ocassion.

Granted, as human beings, we are all prone to periods of depression and/or mood swings. But bipolar disorder is something of a very different nature, altogether. Typically, for most individuals, mood swings and depression are not accompanied by delusional thought patterns and psychosis. While June is hardly qualified to address the notion of "modern day miracles" she does feel she is qualified to address what bipolar disorder is, along with what it is not. She also can address the fact that she has seen and treated many individuals who suffer from this illness, and can testify to the fact that prayer, alone, is not going to cure a person.

Nor do medications "cure" a person afflicted with bipolar disorder. All medication is designed to do, and can do, is stabalize an individual who would otherwise be destined to a life of psychosis, misery, and all that accompanies that. June has a patient currently who is of the belief that there is nothing wrong with him (which is fairly common) and who has refused medication since his initial diagnosis many, many years ago. He truly believes that he is Jesus Christ, and in his delusional state suffers greatly from vast degrees of paranoia. In short, depending upon where he is on the cycling continuum, his life as lived is nothing short of a living nightmare given the depression or the upward swing from hypomania to full blown mania. Bipolar disorder is a psychosis; a thought disorder. June has very, very, very little faith in the notion that spirituality, religion, or just prayer fully addressing anything of that magnitude. June is not saying that there exists no value in all three of those things; however, as a sole "treatment" or means of stabalizing someone suffering from biopolar disorder? No. --And trust June when she says that it is not unusual that the delusions accompanying bipolar disorder are frequently if not commonly of a religious nature. In short, God has had ample opportunity to "cure" bipolar disorder, and yet to the best of June's knowledge and the research available to her, thus far, it has yet to happen.

As Miss Blue said, there are "tools" (medications) that man has to his avail, and if people wish to attribute those tools to God, or God's impact and influence on mankind, then June takes no issue with that whatsoever. What June does take issue with is the notion that more hope rests in a "miracle" taking place, such that individuals would feel compelled to go off their medication. As it is, there is as high an incident rate of the efficacy of such medications as there is non compliance among the bipolar population in taking them. Medication non complaince is not only comon among patients suffering from bipolar disorder, it can also prove lethal.

June posts this merely to inform, and hopefully dispel false notions regarding the seriousness of what is, in fact, a major mental illness. She is also not saying that faith, prayer, and ongoing hope do not play a role in the dealings of family members and friends of those loved ones afflicted with this illness. But to encourage, endorse, or advocate that an otherwise stabalized individual who is being maintained on proper/adequate medication to go off their medication in the hopes of a "miracle" has accompanying it a major risk level that the likes of June would just as soon see individuals avoid. --Both the individual who suffers from bipolar disorder, and those loved ones in his/her life who are witness to the havoc and downright destruction that can ensue. Those "tools" which Miss Blue mentioned serve a very essential and at times life saving purpose. Not every patient benefits as fully from medication as others; bipolar disorder is a life long state of affairs, but when lives of sheer misery, hell, and all too often suicide can be prevented, June, for one, is all for it.

Far better to live a functional existence and fulfilling life than one ruled by delusional psychosis.


Take gentle informative care.

Last edited by june 7th; 06-26-2010 at 03:34 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 02:43 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,880,277 times
Reputation: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
June is not of the belief that bipolar is as common as one perhaps thinks, unless we are talking about those who are misdiagnosed; something that can and does happen fairly often. We are also not talking about just "mood swings" the likes of which the average individual is naturally prone to by either situational of physical/biological circumstances upon ocassion.

Granted, as human beings, we are all prone to periods of depression and/or mood swings. But bipolar disorder is something of a very different nature, altogether. Typically, for most individuals, mood swings and depression are not accompanied by delusional thought patterns and psychosis. While June is hardly qualified to address the notion of "modern day miracles" she does feel she is qualified to address what bipolar disorder is, along with what it is not. She also can address the fact that she has seen and treated many individuals who suffer from this illness, and can testify to the fact that prayer, alone, is not going to cure a person.

Nor do medications "cure" a person afflicted with bipolar disorder. All medication is designed to do, and can do, is stabalize an individual who would otherwise be destined to a life of psychosis, misery, and all that accompanies that. June has a patient currently who is of the belief that there is nothing wrong with him (which is fairly common) and who has refused medication since his initial diagnosis many, many years ago. He truly believes that he is Jesus Christ, and in his delusional state suffers greatly from vast degrees of paranoia. In short, depending upon where he is on the cycling continuum, his life as lived is nothing short of a living nightmare given the depression or the upward swing from hypomania to full blown mania. Bipolar disorder is a psychosis; a thought disorder. June has very, very, very little faith in the notion that spirituality, religion, or just prayer fully addressing anything of that magnitude. June is not saying that there exists no value in all three of those things; however, as a sole "treatment" or means of stabalizing someone suffering from biopolar disorder? No. --And trust June when she says that it is not unusual that the delusions accompanying bipolar disorder are frequently if not commonly of a religious nature. In short, God has had ample opportunity to "cure" bipolar disorder, and yet to the best of June's knowledge and the research available to her, thus far, it has yet to happen.

As Miss Blue said, there are "tools" (medications) that man has to his avail, and if people wish to attribute those tools to God, or God's impact and influence on mankind, then June takes no issue with that whatsoever. What June does take issue with is the notion that more hope rests in a "miracle" taking place, such that individuals would feel compelled to go off their medication. As it is, there is as high an incident rate of the efficacy of such medications as there is no compliance among the bipolar population in taking them. Medication non complaince is not only comon among patients suffering from bipolar disorder, it can also prove lethal.

June posts this merely to inform, and hopefully dispel false notions regarding the seriousness of what is, in fact, a major mental illness. She is also not saying that faith, prayer, and ongoing hope do not play a role in the dealings of family members and freinds of those loved one afflicted with this illness. But to encourage, endorse, or advocate that an otherwise stabalized individual who is being maintained on proper/adequate medication to go off their medication in the hopes of a "miracle" has accompanying it a major risk level that the likes of June would just as soon see individuals avoid. --Both the individual who suffers from bipolar disorder, and those loved ones in his/her life who are witness to the havoc and downright destruction that can ensue. Those "tools" which Miss Blue mentioned serve a very essential and at times life saving purpose. Not every patient benefits as fully from medication as others; bipolar disorder is a life long state of affairs, but when lives of sheer misery, hell, and all too often suicide can be prevented, June, for one, is all for it.

Far better to live a functional existence and fulfilling life than one ruled by delusional psychosis.


Take gentle informative care.
June,

I think you missed my points. I will attempt to clarify:

1. You are a mental health professional who has claimed, definitively and without qualification, that bipolar disorder "is not something that can be controlled spiritually." I was merely making the point that there are OTHER qualified mental health professionals who have disputed that claim. I didn't say you were on the wrong side of the fence and they were on the right side of the fence--I merely pointed out the fact that this is a matter that remains in dispute. To put it another way, it is my view that you were presenting a "professional opinion" as a fact.

2. As regards the power of God to cure--you wrote:

God has had ample opportunity to "cure" bipolar disorder, and yet to the best of June's knowledge and the research available to her, thus far, it has yet to happen.

You are once again missing my point. I never claimed that God had cured anyone of bipolar disorder. I was, rather, pointing out the fact that to the Christian, He can do anything he wants (and this would include curing bipolar disorder). The fact that he HAS this power does not mean that he WILL use it. Were this the case, none of the horrors of the twentieth century--and all those that have preceded it throughout history--and all those that are happening NOW as I type this (including mental anguish and suffering)--would have been allowed to happen in the first place let alone continue. The world would instead be an earthly paradise for all.

I apologise in advance--and with sincerity--if this explanation does not satisfy you. I do however hope it does shed at least a little bit of light on what might be deemed the "Christian perspective" on mental illness--a topic on which I am well qualified to speak since it has been one my primary areas of research as an "independent scholar" for many years--and which I understand to be the very topic of this thread.

Last edited by DreamingSpires; 06-26-2010 at 03:01 PM.. Reason: spellcheque
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,447,957 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post

Had the DSM existed in the days of Jesus Christ I suspect he would have been heavily medicated and diagnosed with numerous "disorders" as defined in the DSM, or at the very least placed somewhere on the "bipolar spectrum."
Probably so, God timed it just right.

Quote:
God is capable of performing any miracle of His choosing. This would include curing of any condition whatsoever--including "bipolar disorder."
Exactly. God can do anything.

Quote:
I don't even want to think about what they would have done with John the Baptist.
Or what about Ezekiel or Daniel? They would have thrown away the key with Moses.
I don't even want to entertain these thoughts.

All they would have to do is come to this site and we would all be locked up. Especially me and my Preterist ramblings or Mike and his futurist militancy

Thank goodness for anonymity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 02:52 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,880,277 times
Reputation: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Probably so, God timed it just right.


Or what about Ezekiel or Daniel? They would have thrown away the key with Moses.
I don't even want to entertain these thoughts.


ROTFL!!!

Poor Ezekiel!! I didn't even think about him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 03:54 PM
 
7,817 posts, read 10,723,591 times
Reputation: 3457
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
June,

I think you missed my points. I will attempt to clarify:

I was merely making the point that there are OTHER qualified mental health professionals who have disputed that claim.

To put it another way, it is my view that you were presenting a "professional opinion" as a fact.


I never claimed that God had cured anyone of bipolar disorder.

The fact that he HAS this power does not mean that he WILL use it.


I apologise in advance--and with sincerity--if this explanation does not satisfy you.
No apologies necessary and your post need not satisfy a secular shrink. I am not so sure that I was misunderstanding you; rather, I was addressing, to the best of my ability, some of the aspects asked in the OP's question. I addressed what I did based formal education, training, and subsequent clinicial experience with those suffering from bipolar disorder, along with what the research, lit reviews, etc at our disposal says.

I have yet to read anything, anywhere, where it is documented by a bona fide mental health professional (psychiatrist, clinical psychologist, or neurologist) that bipolar disorder was adequately treated without the benefit of medication and psychotherapy, but rather, by religious strivings alone. If you can provide that documentation, I would be more than glad to read it.

Brain chemistry, research, and the field of neurology and clinical trials/research have provided much in terms of hope for those afflicted with major mental illnesses. What I caution against are those who would feel a falsely based hope that such illnesses can be eradicated by God, alone. The fact that he has the power, but would chose not to is enough for me...

Take gentle care.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 04:13 PM
 
264 posts, read 436,923 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
Perhaps this is true in your own professional experience but there are other qualified mental health practitioners who disagree with that statement. I have researched this area for many years (albeit as a lay researcher) and corresponded with some of them.

Moreover, from a Christian and Jewish perspective, God is capable of performing any miracle of His choosing. This would include curing of any condition whatsoever--including "bipolar disorder."

In fact that would be a relatively minor miracle compared to miracles such as walking on water, causing limbs to miraculousy regrow, and raising the dead.
If you've really studied this you should be aware of specific cannabis strains that are prescribes for bipolar disorder.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 04:13 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,880,277 times
Reputation: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
No apologies necessary and your post need not satisfy a secular shrink. I am not so sure that I was misunderstanding you; rather, I was addressing, to the best of my ability, some of the aspects asked in the OP's question. I addressed what I did based formal education, training, and subsequent clinicial experience with those suffering from bipolar disorder, along with what the research, lit reviews, etc at our disposal says.

I have yet to read anything, anywhere, where it is documented by a bona fide mental health professional (psychiatrist, clinical psychologist, or neurologist) that bipolar disorder was adequately treated without the benefit of medication and psychotherapy, but rather, by religious strivings alone. If you can provide that documentation, I would be more than glad to read it.

Brain chemistry, research, and the field of neurology and clinical trials/research have provided much in terms of hope for those afflicted with major mental illnesses. What I caution against are those who would feel a falsely based hope that such illnesses can be eradicated by God, alone. The fact that he has the power, but would chose not to is enough for me...

Take gentle care.
June 7,

There is a whole body of scholarship, both secular and religious, written by both laypersons and professionally trained mental health professionals, that questions MANY of the very premises (axioms) on which your profession is based. It is scholarship that continues to be suppressed for a variety of complex reasons but it is out there if you look for it, and it is growing.

Within that body of scholarship there is documentation that would support my claims about bipolar disorder (presuming you and I could even agree on a definition of "bipolar disorder" is -- and that is unlikely, since practicing psychologists themselves cannot even agree) and other conditions classed as "mental illness", but it is distincly possible, even likely, that you would dismiss this body of research and scholarship because you accept the underlying claims of psychology as axiomatic whereas I, and many others (such as these scholars), do not.

I don't want to go off topic on this thread or even "debate" you on this particular point, because I think it would not only "get very ugly" but would also serve no godly (fruitful) purpose.

I'm currently writing a book in which this very subject is a central theme which may, if I put my nose to the grindstone, be finished in......oh, say......2028. So maybe you and I can discuss it then--if the Old Heaven and Earth is still intact.

Best wishes

Last edited by DreamingSpires; 06-26-2010 at 05:10 PM.. Reason: clarity
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2010, 04:18 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,880,277 times
Reputation: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub-Blue View Post
If you've really studied this you should be aware of specific cannabis strains that are prescribes for bipolar disorder.
Oh yeah, there are MANY different types of treatments for "bipolar disorder." There is evidence that some of them can be quite effective.

I have never claimed otherwise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top