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Old 06-26-2010, 11:30 AM
 
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I have just read a heart-wrenching post by one of our members describing how she is torn by indecision about what to do to prepare for the tribulation ahead (the 7-year one, I assume, headed by antichrist) .

My heart breaks for these poor souls who are literally destroying their lives over how to get ready for something that is never going to take place.

I, too, was once in these people's shoes---agonizing over whether I should flee California because some nutjob posted a "dream" he had on a prophecy website about a devastating earthquake about to strike and did it herald the start of the tribulation; waiting, waiting, waiting, for a rapture that never seemed to come.

I finally did some study on the topic and found that the rapture was a total fraud, perpetrated by some good-hearted but terribly misguided souls, as well as gold-bucked, Rolex-toting prophecy shysters using the rapture and tribulation to fleece the flock.

I dropped expectation of the rapture, the tribulation, the antichrist and every other fairy-tale aspect associated with it like the hottest potato I'd ever handled and I want to tell you the peace of mind that came into my heart was God-sent. I have no expectations it will ever happen, my studies have convinced me of that. Now I go about my daily life trying to serve our Saviour as best I can, being obedient to His will and secure in the knowledge that I will pass into eternity from accident or natural causes, whatever the Lord has designed for me--but certainly not in some sci-fi flight into the air in this ridiculous notion called the rapture.

I encourage all those who are shackled by these expectations of horrors coming upon the earth---should you do this or do that, where should you live, how should you prepare for 666 and saving your unsaved loved ones from being beheaded by antichrist---cast it all away from you. Don't throw away your lives waiting from date to date being set by these con men and suffering depression when another date passes with out the rapture. Free yourselves from it and you will be free indeed.
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Old 06-26-2010, 01:58 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,793,719 times
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Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I have just read a heart-wrenching post by one of our members describing how she is torn by indecision about what to do to prepare for the tribulation ahead (the 7-year one, I assume, headed by antichrist) .

My heart breaks for these poor souls who are literally destroying their lives over how to get ready for something that is never going to take place.

I, too, was once in these people's shoes---agonizing over whether I should flee California because some nutjob posted a "dream" he had on a prophecy website about a devastating earthquake about to strike and did it herald the start of the tribulation; waiting, waiting, waiting, for a rapture that never seemed to come.

I finally did some study on the topic and found that the rapture was a total fraud, perpetrated by some good-hearted but terribly misguided souls, as well as gold-bucked, Rolex-toting prophecy shysters using the rapture and tribulation to fleece the flock.

I dropped expectation of the rapture, the tribulation, the antichrist and every other fairy-tale aspect associated with it like the hottest potato I'd ever handled and I want to tell you the peace of mind that came into my heart was God-sent. I have no expectations it will ever happen, my studies have convinced me of that. Now I go about my daily life trying to serve our Saviour as best I can, being obedient to His will and secure in the knowledge that I will pass into eternity from accident or natural causes, whatever the Lord has designed for me--but certainly not in some sci-fi flight into the air in this ridiculous notion called the rapture.

I encourage all those who are shackled by these expectations of horrors coming upon the earth---should you do this or do that, where should you live, how should you prepare for 666 and saving your unsaved loved ones from being beheaded by antichrist---cast it all away from you. Don't throw away your lives waiting from date to date being set by these con men and suffering depression when another date passes with out the rapture. Free yourselves from it and you will be free indeed.
Speaking as a Catholic I don't believe in the Rapture, but I am not willing to tear the book of Revelation (or Daniel, or Thessalonians for that matter) out of my copy of the Bible. Orthodox Christianity is not a "pick and choose" religion where you take what makes you feel good and discard that which is difficult, frightening, or inconvenient.

With that said, none of us knows the timeline or the manner in which the horrors coming upon the earth will unfold -- but unfold they will. This we know.

We free ourselves by preparing spiritually--by serving Him and accepting that He is in control.

"DO NOT LET YOUR HEARTS BE TROUBLED OR AFRAID."
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Old 06-26-2010, 02:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
I am not willing to tear the book of Revelation (or Daniel, or Thessalonians for that matter) out of my copy of the Bible...none of us knows the timeline or the manner in which the horrors coming upon the earth will unfold -- but unfold they will. This we know.
Most Christians who've been duped by Lindsey, Lahayne & others don't know that John wrote Revelation for the Christians of his day who were being persecuted by Rome. In order to disguise the message that the Roman Empire and its emperor, Nero were the forces of satan; that the "Great Tribulation" was going on right then; that the antichrist had indeed come via his minion, Nero (whose name, written in Aramaic, can be valued at 666, using the Hebrew numerology of gematria) and that it was satan the "Great Dragon" that was really persecuting them it was necessary to use an "Apocalyptic language" or code popular in that day which was a complex system of incredible dreams, symbolisms, visions, objects, images, etc which Romans would not and did not understand, but Christians would and did. Witness, as just one example, the Scarlet ***** who sits on the beast with seven heads, which is symbolism for seven hills. These could be the hills of Rome, or of Jerusalem, or possibly even of Constantinople. We'll never know because Revelation is indecipherable to anyone living today.

But don't look for Revelation to happen in the future. It already happened in 66-70 AD during the 3 1/2 years siege of Jerusalem and the persecutions in Rome and elsewhere in the Roman empire.
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Old 06-26-2010, 03:36 PM
 
3,435 posts, read 321,708 times
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Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Most Christians who've been duped by Lindsey, Lahayne & others don't know that John wrote Revelation for the Christians of his day who were being persecuted by Rome. In order to disguise the message that the Roman Empire and its emperor, Nero were the forces of satan; that the "Great Tribulation" was going on right then; that the antichrist had indeed come via his minion, Nero (whose name, written in Aramaic, can be valued at 666, using the Hebrew numerology of gematria) and that it was satan the "Great Dragon" that was really persecuting them it was necessary to use an "Apocalyptic language" or code popular in that day which was a complex system of incredible dreams, symbolisms, visions, objects, images, etc which Romans would not and did not understand, but Christians would and did. Witness, as just one example, the Scarlet ***** who sits on the beast with seven heads, which is symbolism for seven hills. These could be the hills of Rome, or of Jerusalem, or possibly even of Constantinople. We'll never know because Revelation is indecipherable to anyone living today.

But don't look for Revelation to happen in the future. It already happened in 66-70 AD during the 3 1/2 years siege of Jerusalem and the persecutions in Rome and elsewhere in the Roman empire.
Thrillobyte, while I agree that 70AD was the fulfillment of OT and NT prophecy for the physical people of God, I also believe that there is a further fulfillment of prophecy that has been ongoing since 70AD I believe that the tribulation has been going on for 2000 years...........

I agree with you that there is not going to be a future tribulation, antichrist etc it has been happening all along
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Old 06-26-2010, 03:48 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,793,719 times
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Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Most Christians who've been duped by Lindsey, Lahayne & others don't know that John wrote Revelation for the Christians of his day who were being persecuted by Rome. In order to disguise the message that the Roman Empire and its emperor, Nero were the forces of satan; that the "Great Tribulation" was going on right then; that the antichrist had indeed come via his minion, Nero (whose name, written in Aramaic, can be valued at 666, using the Hebrew numerology of gematria) and that it was satan the "Great Dragon" that was really persecuting them it was necessary to use an "Apocalyptic language" or code popular in that day which was a complex system of incredible dreams, symbolisms, visions, objects, images, etc which Romans would not and did not understand, but Christians would and did. Witness, as just one example, the Scarlet ***** who sits on the beast with seven heads, which is symbolism for seven hills. These could be the hills of Rome, or of Jerusalem, or possibly even of Constantinople. We'll never know because Revelation is indecipherable to anyone living today.

But don't look for Revelation to happen in the future. It already happened in 66-70 AD during the 3 1/2 years siege of Jerusalem and the persecutions in Rome and elsewhere in the Roman empire.
May I humbly suggest that neither of us knows exactly what John meant when he wrote the book of Revelation, and that when you and I stand before the White Throne of God that it is He who will tell us exactly what John meant, NOT we who will tell Him!

With that said,

"DO NOT LET YOUR HEARTS BE TROUBLED OR AFRAID."
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Old 06-26-2010, 04:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Thrillobyte, while I agree that 70AD was the fulfillment of OT and NT prophecy for the physical people of God, I also believe that there is a further fulfillment of prophecy that has been ongoing since 70AD I believe that the tribulation has been going on for 2000 years...........

I agree with you that there is not going to be a future tribulation, antichrist etc it has been happening all along
Thank you again, meerkat. What I am trying to across is not that we're never going to have tribulation, because we will. But the typical futurist scenario of a rapture, followed immediately by a "7-year tribulation" headed by antichrist (satan) is a total mischaracterization of what Revelation was trying to say to the audience of that day. The Christians of today who are chained hand and foot to the rapture baloney and its attending "Great Tribulation" being pushed by prophecy gurus out to make a fast buck are destroying the lives of good people who get sucked into this idea that the world is coming to an end (it is not); that they will be rescued by the rapture (they will not) and that a glorious 1000 years is just around the corner (it is not).

I've read countless stories of despair and sadness from nice Christians who are desperate for the rapture to happen, and who sink into a debilitating depression after each failed date. When I let go of the rapture, the tribulation, the antichrist and everything associated with it I could not believe how simple my life became. Now it doesn't dominate my mind. I can concentrate on worthwhile things instead of watching each date from 6 months off (never fails, either Pentecost or Rosh Hashana of this year or that). I can breathe again and not feel this suffocating weight on my chest of worrying what I should do to prepare for Armageddon. It's a terrific feeling, and more should try it. They'll love it.
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Old 06-26-2010, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,295 posts, read 5,157,710 times
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Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
May I humbly suggest that neither of us knows exactly what John meant when he wrote the book of Revelation, and that when you and I stand before the White Throne of God that it is He who will tell us exactly what John meant, NOT we who will tell Him!

With that said,
ei
"DO NOT LET YOUR HEARTS BE TROUBLED OR AFRAID."
Exactly. The scriptures are written for us, to learn from what transpired and why the saints preservered.
The lessons never cease from being applicable to any Christian, in any walk of life.
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Old 06-26-2010, 04:48 PM
 
9,665 posts, read 10,046,346 times
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Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
May I humbly suggest that neither of us knows exactly what John meant when he wrote the book of Revelation,
THAT I will toast with you in spades. It's why there are a 1000 books out there on the interpretation of Revelation (one for each year of the Millennium, if you like, haha) and not two of them are in agreement with each other.
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Old 06-26-2010, 05:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Exactly. The scriptures are written for us, to learn from what transpired and why the saints preservered.
The lessons never cease from being applicable to any Christian, in any walk of life.
100% correct--this is what is meant by the "the Living Word."
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Old 06-26-2010, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,295 posts, read 5,157,710 times
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Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
THAT I will toast with you in spades. It's why there are a 1000 books out there on the interpretation of Revelation (one for each year of the Millennium, if you like, haha) and not two of them are in agreement with each other.
Because they place it after the fall of the temple
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