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Old 06-28-2010, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,215 posts, read 34,440,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by python87 View Post
How's that going to help? I thought that accepting Jesus (or any other requirement for going to heaven) is purely a matter of free will, otherwise you can't say person is responsible for going to Hell.
God listens to prayers, and He might open the man's heart so he would accept Christ and be saved.

"In everything by prayer and supplication let your requests be made known unto God" (Philippians 4:6).
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:52 AM
 
Location: In God's country
1,059 posts, read 2,420,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meow83 View Post
Hello. I'm a christian in a relationship with a nonbeliever. What is the best way to help him believe in Christ? If you were in my shoes, how would you help your partner? Often I feel like I am not strong enough to help my partner when I cannot even keep up my own relationship with God.
It's not up to us to make others believe. It is up to us however, to walk right with the Lord, do right by the Lord, in our own walk and talk, thats where people see.

You have two issues going on here that i read: you state that you cant even keep up with your own relationship with God, i think thats the first and utmost important thing that you need to worry with right now. If it was me, i would take a step back from the relationship, get my relationship with God as first priority in order. Then, you will see your values fall into place.

Blessings.
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Old 06-28-2010, 08:27 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,336,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meow83 View Post
Hello. I'm a christian in a relationship with a nonbeliever. What is the best way to help him believe in Christ? If you were in my shoes, how would you help your partner? Often I feel like I am not strong enough to help my partner when I cannot even keep up my own relationship with God.
All you can do is be a good witness. If the other person see's some inner joy in you and wonders where it comes from, they will start wanting what you have. The Holy Spirit will do the rest.
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Old 06-28-2010, 08:39 AM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,027,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by python87 View Post
How's that going to help? I thought that accepting Jesus (or any other requirement for going to heaven) is purely a matter of free will, otherwise you can't say person is responsible for going to Hell. It can't be both ways, either other people can influence your eternal destiny or they cant. If they can, the argument "it's their own fault for going to hell" doesn't hold water.

If you can influence someone's eternal destiny then we also have legion of absurd situations. One I am often talking about would be someone killing you (before you got yourself born again) and you going to hell, he repenting on death row and going to heaven. This situation is clearly unjust by everyones standards.

Now one always say "God is sovereign so he can do whatever he wants" (Fundamentalist Muslims and everyone else are saying the same thing about their God, too), and it might even be true. But the problem is that such a deity is hardly reliable, because "whatever he wants" might include lying to people so they think that they are saved. God has to be just in some comprehensible way to be reliable, otherwise we all might be on a path to nowhere for all everyone knows.
1 Cor 2:14 ”But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

"This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
Belief is not something that one actively "chooses" to do. It is the end result or conclusion one reaches after something convinces you of its truth (in this case god). Otherwise, to try to "choose" to believe in something without being convinced of it's truth is making belief into a work. It would make our salvation totally contingent upon something we do as opposed to it being a gift given to us. God does the convincing via the holy spirit to those that he has enabled to "hear" the message.

9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that (faith) not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Yes, god gives his unmerited favor to those he wants to save. How does he do this? Through the vehicle of "faith." We cannot have faith "of ourselves." We need god's grace to grant us spiritual understanding via the holy spirit, so that we are able to believe.
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Old 06-28-2010, 08:47 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,336,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mythunderstood View Post
1 Cor 2:14 ”But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

"This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
Belief is not something that one actively "chooses" to do. It is the end result or conclusion one reaches after something convinces you of its truth (in this case god). Otherwise, to try to "choose" to believe in something without being convinced of it's truth is making belief into a work. It would make our salvation totally contingent upon something we do as opposed to it being a gift given to us. God does the convincing via the holy spirit to those that he has enabled to "hear" the message.

9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that (faith) not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Yes, god gives his unmerited favor to those he wants to save. How does he do this? Through the vehicle of "faith." We cannot have faith "of ourselves." We need god's grace to grant us spiritual understanding via the holy spirit, so that we are able to believe.
Yes, all true, but you make it seem as this person has no recourse. Yes, ultimately the person will turn if the Holy Spirit works on the non-believer, but the believer can pray and be a good witness to Christ.

This "it's not in our hands" approach to Christianity is the same crap that allows people to die while people pray over them when a cure is just down the street at the hospital.
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:09 AM
 
159 posts, read 150,256 times
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Quote:
Belief is not something that one actively "chooses" to do. It is the end result or conclusion one reaches after something convinces you of its truth (in this case god). Otherwise, to try to "choose" to believe in something without being convinced of it's truth is making belief into a work. It would make our salvation totally contingent upon something we do as opposed to it being a gift given to us. God does the convincing via the holy spirit to those that he has enabled to "hear" the message.
Discerning what's true is usually defined as 'work'. I agree with you that simply 'choosing' to believe in something is fundamentally dishonest, one has to make sure that his belief holds water, but that's work. Even learning explanation for something requires effort of some kind (it takes concentrated effort to ,say, listen to teacher during lecture).

Quote:
Yes, god gives his unmerited favor to those he wants to save. How does he do this? Through the vehicle of "faith."
If so, why not give faith to everyone (or deny it to everyone)? How do you know that you have faith and not deception? I am pretty sure that every fundamentalist Muslim in the world is absolutely convinced that he has faith, too. Without reason how do we decide who is right?
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 5,268,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meow83 View Post
Hello. I'm a christian in a relationship with a nonbeliever. What is the best way to help him believe in Christ? If you were in my shoes, how would you help your partner? Often I feel like I am not strong enough to help my partner when I cannot even keep up my own relationship with God.
We are not in charge of anyone nor what they believe. Live your own life, love the person for who they are and don't worry about the "religious" part. If you love each other then you are doing right with God. When we judge another, we leave no room for Love. Just be in the world and love each other. God does not ask for more than that.

In my own relationship, my BF is an agnostic and I'm a Divine Love Christian. He doesn't believe all that I do but he loves me and what I persue is not up to him but he will defend my right to believe it even if he doesn't. He loves me and that is all that matters.

Enjoy each other and love. Nothing else matters.
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,770,235 times
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Pray for him and be a good witness. FYI: Christians shouldn't be dating non-Christians. We aren't supposed to be unequally yoked.
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,769,630 times
Reputation: 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by python87 View Post
How's that going to help? I thought that accepting Jesus (or any other requirement for going to heaven) is purely a matter of free will, otherwise you can't say person is responsible for going to Hell. It can't be both ways, either other people can influence your eternal destiny or they cant. If they can, the argument "it's their own fault for going to hell" doesn't hold water.

If you can influence someone's eternal destiny then we also have legion of absurd situations. One I am often talking about would be someone killing you (before you got yourself born again) and you going to hell, he repenting on death row and going to heaven. This situation is clearly unjust by everyones standards.

Now one always say "God is sovereign so he can do whatever he wants" (Fundamentalist Muslims and everyone else are saying the same thing about their God, too), and it might even be true. But the problem is that such a deity is hardly reliable, because "whatever he wants" might include lying to people so they think that they are saved. God has to be just in some comprehensible way to be reliable, otherwise we all might be on a path to nowhere for all everyone knows.
Such a well reasoned argument from you, Python. I completely agree with all your excellent points. Using reason is key to spiritual freedom!
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:46 PM
 
697 posts, read 915,135 times
Reputation: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
Pray for him and be a good witness. FYI: Christians shouldn't be dating non-Christians. We aren't supposed to be unequally yoked.
What about 1 Corinthians, Chapter 7?

"12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?"
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