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Old 06-28-2010, 11:16 AM
 
10,183 posts, read 10,549,080 times
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Let's start with probably most misinterpreted, misunderstood, and criminally misapplied scripture in all of the Bible:

Quote:
26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease
First let's look at the way the rapture nutjobs who make a fine living off this one verse interpret it to their financial gain:

"26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he [the Antichrist] shall confirm the covenant [7-year covenant made with the Jews at the start of the tribulation]with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease [by walking into the temple and setting up talking, mechanical statue of himself and then demanding that everyone worship it]

I mean have you ever read such nutty rot in all your life?

Now here's the true interpretation of the verses. Notice the whole prophecy revolves around God in the Person of Jesus and has nothing whatsoever to do with the devil. To assign Jesus' work to the devil is more than just heresy, it's ...it's...well, I just can't bring myself to say it.

26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come [in 70 AD to destroy Jerusalem] shall destroy the city and the sanctuary [that was Titus, son (Prince) of Roman General Vespasian who marched into Jerusalem in 70 AD and sacked it]; and the end [of Jerusalem in 70 AD] thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war [again the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem] desolations are determined. 27And he [God, through His Son, Jesus] shall confirm the covenant [the convenant God made with Adam and Eve in the Garden about sending the seed of woman (Jesus) to make atonement for man's sins] with many for one week [the 70th week]: and in the midst of the week [from the start of Jesus' ministry to His crucifixion, 3 1/2 years later] he [God through Jesus] shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease [which happened when the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom at the very moment of Jesus' death on the cross--yes, sacrifices still went on afterwards, but they were of no value in God's Eyes]

Can you see, people, how prophecy pimps have taken this beautiful verse about Jesus' redemptive work and assigned it to the workings of Satan??????? And for what? To make $$$$$$$$$ selling this screwy scenario about a future 7 year tribulation and some screwball walking into the temple and setting up a mechanical monster that talks like a parrot and says, "Worship this mental case (antichrist) or I'll lop off your heads". I mean this is so patently ridiculous I'm just totally baffled how anybody with a shred of intelligence falls for it.

Just pray to the Holy Spirit and ask Him to reveal to you the truth, the beauty and the real meaning of Daniel's prophecy. He'll do it, I promise.

Last edited by thrillobyte; 06-28-2010 at 11:32 AM..
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:45 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,651,035 times
Reputation: 7409
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Let's start with probably most misinterpreted, misunderstood, and criminally misapplied scripture in all of the Bible:



First let's look at the way the rapture nutjobs who make a fine living off this one verse interpret it to their financial gain:

"26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he [the Antichrist] shall confirm the covenant [7-year covenant made with the Jews at the start of the tribulation]with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease [by walking into the temple and setting up talking, mechanical statue of himself and then demanding that everyone worship it]

I mean have you ever read such nutty rot in all your life?

Now here's the true interpretation of the verses. Notice the whole prophecy revolves around God in the Person of Jesus and has nothing whatsoever to do with the devil. To assign Jesus' work to the devil is more than just heresy, it's ...it's...well, I just can't bring myself to say it.

26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come [in 70 AD to destroy Jerusalem] shall destroy the city and the sanctuary [that was Titus, son (Prince) of Roman General Vespasian who marched into Jerusalem in 70 AD and sacked it]; and the end [of Jerusalem in 70 AD] thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war [again the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem] desolations are determined. 27And he [God, through His Son, Jesus] shall confirm the covenant [the convenant God made with Adam and Eve in the Garden about sending the seed of woman (Jesus) to make atonement for man's sins] with many for one week [the 70th week]: and in the midst of the week [from the start of Jesus' ministry to His crucifixion, 3 1/2 years later] he [God through Jesus] shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease [which happened when the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom at the very moment of Jesus' death on the cross--yes, sacrifices still went on afterwards, but they were of no value in God's Eyes]

Can you see, people, how prophecy pimps have taken this beautiful verse about Jesus' redemptive work and assigned it to the workings of Satan??????? And for what? To make $$$$$$$$$ selling this screwy scenario about a future 7 year tribulation and some screwball walking into the temple and setting up a mechanical monster that talks like a parrot and says, "Worship this mental case (antichrist) or I'll lop off your heads". I mean this is so patently ridiculous I'm just totally baffled how anybody with a shred of intelligence falls for it.

Just pray to the Holy Spirit and ask Him to reveal to you the truth, the beauty and the real meaning of Daniel's prophecy. He'll do it, I promise.
I invite interested readers to go to this thread in which I have just addressed this prophecy in its defense, against an attack on it by another poster. Refer to posts # 18, 22, and 27.

The silliness of the end times beliefs,scripturally
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Old 07-01-2010, 02:47 PM
 
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BTW, thanks to all of you who gave me a rep. You're the greatest (next to Jesus).
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Old 07-01-2010, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,287,428 times
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Thrillobyte,

The only way Preterism and Futurism will go to the table on this as a group toward unification, is they have to address the Book of Revelation and its date. The historical, theological, and literary evidence is overwhelming in the Preterist corner, when the futurist solely relies on Irenaeus' quote. That's it. I trust the Holy Spirit in what He is doing, whichever way it turns out.

I choose Full Preterism, so you all know how I think.
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Old 07-02-2010, 02:35 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,287,428 times
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The issue we are having in the church today, with so many versions of the end times, and other sects that claim homage to Christianity, which in reality are really just more misinterpretations of the end time scenarios, and precisely what they are referring to and mean on all levels, are from the majority of the professing church views on the these particular events.

You all know me fairly well here, and that you all know I am a Full Preterist, and although I, like all Full Preterists, believe that the consummation of all prophecy has been fulfilled for the dispensation of the church, their redemption and justification, as Israel, a blend of both peoples, Jew and Gentile, etc, etc, never in any way discounts the decreed blessings and curses that go along with living in God's covenant. I comb the internet daily in regards to various topics that concern Preterism, and I come across folks such as this, that tried Christianity, but never came to the faith completely because of the mere fact that:

Quote:
In retrospect, I think it was reading Hal Lindsey that started me down the road to deconversion.

I was intrigued by end time prophecy so I started reading his book (The Late Great Planet Earth) and decided to mark the prophecies in my bible to see how they related to one another and to read them in context. I thought I might get some insight into how the bible was prophetic and even maybe learn to read it and interpret the prophecies for myself!

Well, the prophecies were taken out of context, misinterpreted or over interpreted, and unrelated to one another. It was very disappointing, but he's only a writer.

But then I looked into the subject of prophecy a little deeper and found the same things for the biblical prophecies.

Then the pieces started falling into place:

1. Prophecy is fake
2. Prophecy was used to present Jesus as Messiah
3. Jesus believed in prophecy and used it - even making prophetic predictions

So that meant that Jesus was duped and hence not the son of god, the bible was not inspired and contained fake information, and Christianity was as "mystical" and wrong as the Oracle at Delphi.

20 years later I deconverted. Long story.
Then I see things like this:

Quote:
During my deconversion process, I also ran across the preterist teachings, including Gary DeMar's works. He spends enormous amounts of time debunking end-time prophecy as it relates to fundamentalists, and I appreciated a lot of what he had to say. For the most part, I think that the preterists are the closest to interpeting the bible as it was intended-- but they miss the boat, because they don't accept that some of what is written in just plain wrong.
He goes on to talk about the transfiguration and how Christ did not come and usher in the kingdom when Jerusalem fell, and was not seen by everyone on earth, etc, etc...the same old argument that is easily refuted by the fact that Christ never ever said He would come bodily, and secondly, in any language, one can SEE with their eyes, and one can SEE with their heart and mind...in other words...to know See Dan 7 and Zech 12...also look to John 19 for direct fulfillment of Zech 12 and Psalm 22.

Here's a food for thought....the kingdom being delivered to God by Christ in 1 Corinthians 15 is NOT the Kingdom that we, as Christians are living in. It is the kingdom where DEATH is in SIN, and the Strength of SIN is in the LAW. The kingdom delivered to God, is none other than the Jewish Theocracy which had gone apostate, and was given to the saints:

And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom [is] an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

What the unbeliever needs to hear is that Christ did every thing He said He would, and claimed victory over death for those that put their trust in Him. Otherwise you are dead, dead in your sins. The unbeliever needs to hear that not only has he been saved from that, but here is the evidence that He did everything He said he would. What other god or religion can tell you that? None. I have dabbled in most of them in my past.
Including the black arts.

Full Preterism closes the book on every view, every paradigm, that has either edified or discredited, or embarrassed or blessed, and unites the faith in one common goal....to heal the nations, so that His Government does increase, unto a world without end.

You all have noticed I actively debate with Universalism, because I feel, after much study of it, it is a Dispensational Futurist view that has gone terribly wrong. Just as serious as Islam. In time, it will completely break from any orthodoxy, and usurp the basic fundamentals of Christianity, that unite all views from Futurist to Preterist, a most evident reality to the presence of the Holy Spirit in the church. Universalism defies this. Many other sects do as well. Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Seventh Day Adventism, and I can go on and on for days...well maybe hours.

Full Preterism removes any doubt to any of these and completely unites the church under the Realized New Covenant, the Fulfilled New Creation, the Consummated Marriage and Resurrection of Israel and Parousia - Second Coming, that we can all be a part of our faith, and that we can have that life, that once captive relationship with God has been redeemed, which will never go away, that will continue eternally, forever and ever.

The unbeliever needs to hear this, so that he will believe Christ did indeed rise from the dead, because He did everything else He said He would.
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Old 07-02-2010, 12:03 PM
 
10,183 posts, read 10,549,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Thrillobyte,

The only way Preterism and Futurism will go to the table on this as a group toward unification, is they have to address the Book of Revelation and its date. The historical, theological, and literary evidence is overwhelming in the Preterist corner, when the futurist solely relies on Irenaeus' quote. That's it. I trust the Holy Spirit in what He is doing, whichever way it turns out.

I choose Full Preterism, so you all know how I think.
Unfortunately, sciotamicks, preterism and futurism are about as diametrically opposed to each other as is communism and capitalism, perhaps much more so. New evidence is coming to the fore that Revelation was written much earlier than 96 AD, the traditionally accepted date:

Quote:
There have been, however, a good number of scholars over the past hundred and fifty years who have leaned heavily toward the late 50s or early 60s C.E. for the composition of the Book of Revelation simply because the historical indications within the book point more appropriately to that time. And true enough, if John were recording historical events contemporary with the writing of the book, then the composition must be dated to near 60 C.E. Let us look at some of the reasons for this.

Recall in previous chapters that the apostles, and many Jews and Gentiles, were expecting the soon appearing of the Messianic kingdom on earth. The critical date for the apostles appears to have been the Sabbatical Year of 62 to 63 C.E. Up to that time the apostle Paul was emphasizing the nearness of the second advent, but by 63 or 64 C.E. he had adopted a completely different attitude to the matter. The apostles Peter and John may have waited until after the miraculous events in the spring of 66 C.E. concerning the Temple before they decided for certain that Christ was not returning in that generation, but whatever the case, the period before C.E.62 was alive with the imminent expectation of the Kingdom of God on earth.
Chapter 20: When Was the Book of Revelation Written?

But when we're dealing with hard-core futurists who have drunk the kool-aid (in Mike's case a tanker-full of the stuff, it seems) generously served up by Lindsey, La Hayne and the others in order to milk their pocketbooks, then reconciliation appears to be completely off the table. All you and I and others who know the truth can do is warn newbies visiting this site not to also drink the kool-aid and end up in a spiritual Jonestown-style massacre of depression and despair when dates for the rapture repeatedly come and go.
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Old 07-02-2010, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,287,428 times
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T,

Good stuff...thanks for the link!
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