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Old 09-29-2010, 03:04 AM
 
Location: US
28,001 posts, read 15,087,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
I never knew the history of this doctrine. Had I known it came from an 1830 “prophetess” I would have ignored it a lot sooner.
Is the Pretribulation Rapture Theory Biblical?
Does it make a difference?...If you are going to ignore it you should ignore it because of its scriptural authority and not whether it came from a man or woman...
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Old 09-29-2010, 01:40 PM
 
Location: US
28,001 posts, read 15,087,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
You make the simplistic error of assuming because someone doesn''t accept your version that they don't understand it.You're wrong.I knew it by heart,and then some.Taught lessons on it.Had Bible groups I taught ask my preacher what seminary I studied at (which I hadn't).But a funny thing about getting reeeaaally deep into studying something.If you study long and hard enough,and with an open mind,you also find all the seeming flaws in the ideas.And then if you possess the courage to actually investigate the seeming flaws instead of rejecting the idea out of hand that what you have believed just miigghhtt be wrong,you sometimes discover that what you believed is in fact not supportable by the evidence. But it takes courage to do this,and it is more difficult to challenge what you have been told to believe and easier to put doubts to the back of your mind and simply believe with faith,rather than facts,that what you have been taught is wrong.
Systematic Theology...
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Old 10-02-2010, 10:06 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,470,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
You mean to tell me that the pets of the righteous are going to have to endure the Great Tribulation? That seems unfair Actually, I don't think
any of the animals deserve to suffer if I may say how I really feel.
You are not familiar with God's Word on the subject of sovereignty over all souls of all spirits He has created.
Only eight human beings and one male and one female of all unclean beasts and fowl of the earth and seven males and seven females of all clean beasts and fowl of the earth survived the flood.
God warned the human beings to whom He had given rule over the earth to repent, through the preaching of Noah and Methuselah, for a period of 120 years, and that then, the flood would come, if they would not repent.
They did not repent, and the flood came. They could not save themselves, nor could they save their beloved "pets".

Noah and his sons and their wives were not allowed to take on board the ark "pets", but two of every unclean sort sent to them by YHWH, and seven of every sort sent to them by YHWH.

YHWH is Sovereign, and no one who does not serve Him as the Sovereign LORD, and believe that He is good, and does good, will have to worry about leaving their "pets". They can remain with them, but they will not be able to provide safety and life and food for themselves, much less for their pets, whom they love above the Sovereign Creator and LORD of them all.
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Old 10-02-2010, 10:15 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,803 posts, read 7,375,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Does it make a difference?...If you are going to ignore it you should ignore it because of its scriptural authority and not whether it came from a man or woman...
It is nothing to do with a man or woman, it is the fact it wa a prophet/ess. I don't follow prophets.
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Old 10-02-2010, 10:53 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,470,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
It is nothing to do with a man or woman, it is the fact it wa a prophet/ess. I don't follow prophets.
God always spoke by prophets, and YHWH come in flesh as the second creation human being is the last Word from YHWH, Himself.

Hbr 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

And He spoke about the rapture before the tribulation, through His prophet, Enoch, the seventh from Adam, and He reiterated it through the Son.

Rapture -change to glory- before the tribulation, of the righteous/elect, was first revealed by Enoch:
Quote:
50

And in those days a change shall take place for the holy and elect,
And the light of days shall abide upon them,
And glory and honour shall turn to the holy,

2 On the day of affliction/tribulation on which evil shall have been treasured up against the sinners [Romans 2:5, below].
And the righteous shall be victorious in the name of the Lord of Spirits:
And He will cause the others to witness this
That they may repent

And forgo the works of their hands.
3 They shall have no honour through the name of the Lord of Spirits,
Yet through His name shall they be saved [Matthew 10:22, Revelation 3:12, below],
And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them,
For His compassion is great.
4And He is righteous also in His judgement,
And in the presence of His glory unrighteousness also shall not maintain itself:
At His judgement the unrepentant shall perish before Him.
5And from henceforth I will have no mercy on them, saith the Lord of Spirits.
*Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.
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Old 10-02-2010, 11:07 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,803 posts, read 7,375,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
God always spoke by prophets, and YHWH come in flesh as the second creation human being is the last Word from YHWH, Himself.

Hbr 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

And He spoke about the rapture before the tribulation, through His prophet, Enoch, the seventh from Adam, and He reiterated it through the Son.

Rapture -change to glory- before the tribulation, of the righteous/elect, was first revealed by Enoch:
*Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.
Then why did it take until 1830 to catch on?
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Old 10-02-2010, 03:21 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,470,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Then why did it take until 1830 to catch on?
Why did Enoch get "banned" in the west, centuries after it was called Scripture by Jesus [in Luke, speaking to the Sadducees about erring "not knowing Scripture" [the rest of his rebuke on not knowing the power of God applies to Moses], that in the resurrection they are equal with/like the angels in heaven, who do not marry nor give in marriage? -and centuries after the early Church called it Scripture and quoted it? -Because the power of politics got control of what men call "Church". But that does not mean that men did not read the Scriptures nor study them for themselves. Few people actually seek to learn the "mysteries" hidden and revealed to those who seek -like Paul did.

The rapture is called the "laqach" in the OT, and the gathering together to YHWH, and there are many Scriptures and oracles about the "laqach" of the Church, before the tribulation, in the OT.
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Old 10-11-2010, 07:22 PM
 
32 posts, read 26,510 times
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I never find in scriptures where ANY of the Apostles tell the churches about all the horrors of the Great Tribulation "Don't worry you won't be here!"
The opposite is what they tell them.
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Old 10-12-2010, 06:10 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,429,758 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
I never knew the history of this doctrine. Had I known it came from an 1830 “prophetess” I would have ignored it a lot sooner.
Is the Pretribulation Rapture Theory Biblical?

Yeah that is where it came from..
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Old 10-12-2010, 09:50 AM
 
783 posts, read 707,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Yeah that is where it came from..
Butt it comes through a corruption of the biblical text.
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