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Old 06-29-2010, 10:59 AM
 
Location: PA
2,616 posts, read 4,008,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
I wanted to know about this because I was recently compelled to do more research on the rapture. I don't really understand the time period for the 7-year tribulation. I never understood how on earth it's going to be that long. I mean, I'm not questioning God and why or how he does things but my goodness that is an awful lot of time to be under persecution. I'm not talking about for unbelievers though. I'm talking about the Christians who are born again in that time! I've been researching different Christian websites and they are saying the tribulation is actually 3 1/2 years. Is this true? Do you agree? Personally I believe in the literal bible theory but you never know. I'm just so baffled at the fact that the tribulation will be THAT long. That's almost a decade!
There will be a seven year period. After 3-1/2" years the anti-christ will set his throne in the temple and call himself God. The first three and a half years are for the building of the temple. The last three and a half years are for the rule of the Anti-christ. The end of this seven year period is marked by the return of Christ who will then rule for the Millenial reign. After which time Satan will be loosed, battle and then eternity for us who are saved with the Lord.

But that is not the end, for it is written "of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end". So Jesus Christ will continue to increase his government for eternity. What does this increase mean? We will find out, but to increase anything even a little bit for a long time like eternity will produce something very large. I think it will be exciting to find out.

The Seven year period comes from Daniels prophesy:

Daniel 9:27:And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

One week = 7 years with a day representing a year
In the mist = at the half way point, does not necessarily mean the exact half, but that is usually implied.
cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease = means that the sacrifices and oblations where being offered to God after he confirmed the covenant (agreement). This cannot happen until the temple on the temple mount is rebuilt. At the time of this writting it has not yet been rebuilt, but there is movement to have the third temple built on the temple mount. When the Jews in Israel get the authority and freedom to build on the temple mount we will know that the end is coming.

Do not fear the tribulation, because the Anti-Christ will have limited effect on the world. It is written:

Daniel 11:44: "But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many."

So, the Anti-Christ will be troubled by the news of his conquering in the east and in the north. So, he will not have total rule and this will anger him. He however will be defeated for it says in verse 45:

"And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him."

And how will the defeated Anti-Christ be viewed?

"They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?" (Isaiah 14:16-17)

What will happen to the Anti-Christ (the beast)?
"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone." (Rev. 19:20)
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,669,238 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
There will be a seven year period. After 3-1/2" years the anti-christ will set his throne in the temple and call himself God. The first three and a half years are for the building of the temple. The last three and a half years are for the rule of the Anti-christ. The end of this seven year period is marked by the return of Christ who will then rule for the Millenial reign. After which time Satan will be loosed, battle and then eternity for us who are saved with the Lord.

But that is not the end, for it is written "of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end". So Jesus Christ will continue to increase his government for eternity. What does this increase mean? We will find out, but to increase anything even a little bit for a long time like eternity will produce something very large. I think it will be exciting to find out.

The Seven year period comes from Daniels prophesy:

Daniel 9:27:And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

One week = 7 years with a day representing a year
In the mist = at the half way point, does not necessarily mean the exact half, but that is usually implied.
cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease = means that the sacrifices and oblations where being offered to God after he confirmed the covenant (agreement). This cannot happen until the temple on the temple mount is rebuilt.
And it doesn't strike you as odd that this happened already once when the temple was destroyed?

Quote:
At the time of this writting it has not yet been rebuilt,
If you notice... John is asked to MEASURE the temple. How could he measure a temple that was already destroyed... Of course this is a vision.... but to John it was TO COME therefore at the time of this writing it has not yet be DESTROYED.

Quote:
but there is movement to have the third temple built on the temple mount. When the Jews in Israel get the authority and freedom to build on the temple mount we will know that the end is coming.
Even if they do... will they start sacrificing again? Highly doubtful.

Quote:
Do not fear the tribulation, because the Anti-Christ will have limited effect on the world. It is written:

Daniel 11:44: "But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many."

So, the Anti-Christ will be troubled by the news of his conquering in the east and in the north. So, he will not have total rule and this will anger him. He however will be defeated for it says in verse 45:

"And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him."

And how will the defeated Anti-Christ be viewed?

"They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?" (Isaiah 14:16-17)

What will happen to the Anti-Christ (the beast)?
"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone." (Rev. 19:20)
There is no reason to think this all happened twice... once is fulfillment. Twice is just plain fabrication.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,766,284 times
Reputation: 531
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
If I may make a suggestion, Allen: listen to kat. Don't take anyone's word. There are people here who will hammer you with both sides---rapture; no rapture. tribulation; no tribulation. If you've followed any of my posts you know I'm strongly AGAINST the rapture because my studies have led me to the truth: that it's a doctrine invented by corrupt men to line their pockets with $$$$'s off the gullibility of naive Christians who are either new to the faith or stuck in some kind of spiritual adolescence. They refuse to educate themselves and prefer to continue down the Yellow Brick Road to some fairyland where they hope to find escape from the problems of the world. Those of us who've really studied the issue have discovered the rapture is as phony as a 3-dollar bill. Try it: Goggle "the rapture is a fraud" or "the rapture is false". Here's a good link to start you off:

The Rapture—A Popular but False Doctrine! > September/October 2008 > World News & Prophecy
You just said, "Don't take anyone's word" so then he shouldn't listen to you. Why bother posting a link?
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:57 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,906,848 times
Reputation: 1354
*eases back out of this one*
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:01 PM
 
Location: PA
2,616 posts, read 4,008,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
And it doesn't strike you as odd that this happened already once when the temple was destroyed?
No, because it did not happen as it will happen in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
If you notice... John is asked to MEASURE the temple. How could he measure a temple that was already destroyed... Of course this is a vision.... but to John it was TO COME therefore at the time of this writing it has not yet be DESTROYED.
It was a vision that you are refering too. He was seeing the temple that will come down out of heaven from God. The one that Abram desired to see. It is written that: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. (Heb. 11:10) So, John was not measuring the city that was in Jerusalem, but the one that was in heaven, that will come down at the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Even if they do... will they start sacrificing again? Highly doubtful.
Yes, they will start sacrificing. In fact they already have. The Sanhedrin has been assembled, the Kohanim have been trained, All of the Priestly Garments have been made. It is only a matter of time before they begin the daily sacrifices on the temple mount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
There is no reason to think this all happened twice... once is fulfillment. Twice is just plain fabrication.
The temple was destroyed twice, It will be rebuilt again a third time. However, God's plan is that the New Jerusalem will come down out of Heaven. The third temple is earthly.
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,669,238 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
No, because it did not happen as it will happen in the future.
so the sacrifices ceasing in 70AD has absolutely no significance for you? You overlook the temple being destroyed even though it dramatically changed the Jewish way of worship.


Quote:
It was a vision that you are refering too. He was seeing the temple that will come down out of heaven from God. The one that Abram desired to see. It is written that: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. (Heb. 11:10) So, John was not measuring the city that was in Jerusalem, but the one that was in heaven, that will come down at the end.
Rev. 11:1-2I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.

So the Gentiles trample a city that comes down from heaven? There is no indication here that the city is not on earth to begin with.
Coincidentally-
It is Herod that enlarged the temple and it was finished 7 years before it was again destroyed!
In Rev. 21 we see the NEW city coming down and an ANGEL measures it...THE CITY.. not the temple.. for in the NEW CITY THAT COMES DOWN there IS NO TEMPLE!
You are slightly confused!

Quote:
Yes, they will start sacrificing. In fact they already have. The Sanhedrin has been assembled, the Kohanim have been trained, All of the Priestly Garments have been made. It is only a matter of time before they begin the daily sacrifices on the temple mount.
According to the Israeli National News, "They noted that according to Jewish Law, the Holy Temple does not need to be built in order to resume the sacrificial offerings. They emphasized accordingly that the Temple Mount organizations are not trying to change or make modifications to any existing structures on the Mount, but rather aim to receive permission to build a temporary altar, which would be dismantled immediately following the Passover Offering. " http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/136699

They have no need to rebuild the temple.... What if they never do... First I have already shown your error regarding the rebuilding and re-destroying of the temple, and second you have a gross misunderstanding of Revelation.

Quote:
The temple was destroyed twice, It will be rebuilt again a third time. However, God's plan is that the New Jerusalem will come down out of Heaven. The third temple is earthly.
You have issues... Rev. 21 states clearly that there will be NO temple in the NEW Jerusalem..."I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. "

The "left behind" books are FICTION. FANTASY.
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,582,303 times
Reputation: 939
You're asking questions because it doesn't make any sense to you right? "So the Gentiles trample a city that comes down from heaven?" "so the sacrifices ceasing in 70AD has absolutely no significance for you?"

Then you choose to go on and answer you own questions.

Then you go on to tell someone they're "confused".....and that they have "issues"....

You really don't understand what you're doing, do you? Are you blatantly attempting to replace God's prophetic words with "your logic"? Are you suicidal?
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,669,238 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
You're asking questions because it doesn't make any sense to you right? "So the Gentiles trample a city that comes down from heaven?" "so the sacrifices ceasing in 70AD has absolutely no significance for you?"

Then you choose to go on and answer you own questions.

Then you go on to tell someone they're "confused".....and that they have "issues"....

You really don't understand what you're doing, do you? Are you blatantly attempting to replace God's prophetic words with "your logic"? Are you suicidal?
I imagine this is in response to my post....

Look it up Betsey... the temple that John is told to measure in Rev. 11 is the one that was still standing when he wrote Rev. The same one that was destroyed in 70AD... The NEW HOLY CITY has no temple so that temple COULD NOT be measured....

Take a look at your own version and compare it to what the bible actually says. They don't match....

And what the heck does "are you suicidal?" mean exactly? Am I causing my own death by reading the book of Revelation and repeating what it REALLY says?

You can believe in a fictional end times scenario if you want but I CHOOSE not to... I would rather believe in Wonderland and I am Alice. At least in the end she wakes up!
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,582,303 times
Reputation: 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I imagine this is in response to my post....

Look it up Betsey... the temple that John is told to measure in Rev. 11 is the one that was still standing when he wrote Rev. The same one that was destroyed in 70AD... The NEW HOLY CITY has no temple so that temple COULD NOT be measured....

Take a look at your own version and compare it to what the bible actually says. They don't match....

And what the heck does "are you suicidal?" mean exactly? Am I causing my own death by reading the book of Revelation and repeating what it REALLY says?

You can believe in a fictional end times scenario if you want but I CHOOSE not to... I would rather believe in Wonderland and I am Alice. At least in the end she wakes up!
Yes, it is in response to your questions.

Yes, you are causing your own death by constantly ridiculing and blaspheming the WORDS OF GOD.

Yes, she does wakes up in the end, you will too, hopefully.

Yes, it's your choice.....carry on.
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Old 06-29-2010, 05:05 PM
 
8,102 posts, read 7,070,273 times
Reputation: 1433
I do not believe in the seven year tribulations and I dont care if people do not like me, because the Bible does not say any thing literal about any seven year tribulation. .....In Daniel 11:11-12.. And from the time that the daily sacriface shall be taken away and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a 1,290 days.....Blessed is he that waiteth and cometh to the 1, 353 days``..... Can be interpreted two ways and that. If you add the days together you will get 2,643 days, divide be 365.25 days, you get 7.2 years....... or the other interpretation for only three and half years is 1,290 days of desolation subtract from 1,353 days is 63 days more, Daniel 11;12... Blessed is he that waiteth 63 more days ..... Both these interpretation are right and the one interpretion that gets revelation from Holy Spirit is the one that is true....... It took Jesus three and a half years from the Baptism of John the Baptist to the Cross to do the finished works. of Christ and in the Book of Revelation 12:6 ...`` and the woman fled into the wilderness where she hath a place prepared of God that they should feed her there 1,290 days or Three and One Half Years...... Even during the great revolution of France in 1770s the Church of Jesus was closed and liberal churches with No God were opened during the liberal injustice and it took Jesus THREE and ONE HALF YEARS to reopen the Church in France with many leaders of the church were killed......
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