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Old 06-29-2010, 02:27 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,981,174 times
Reputation: 8282

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
Clearly, you don't understand how disgusting sin is to God. Those good deeds are filthy rags to God. Works don't save anyone! Faith in Christ alone saves.
OK, so let me get this straight, there is sin, and there are deeds, right?

Sin really rankles this god, right?
Deeds are filthy rags (what ever the hell that means) and this god don't care about them. Right?

So if someone kowtows, says all the right words, etc., they are "in" - Right?

If the same person does only good deeds throughout their life, they are "out" - Right? (remember deeds don't count)

So using this logic, someone can do #1, and beyond that, they can be the biggest jerk on the planet, rob, rape, murder, spit on sidewalks, these don't count cause they are just "deeds" and deeds don't count, thus they are still "in".

Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaay got it
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,766,117 times
Reputation: 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
OK, so let me get this straight, there is sin, and there are deeds, right?

Sin really rankles this god, right?
Deeds are filthy rags (what ever the hell that means) and this god don't care about them. Right?

So if someone kowtows, says all the right words, etc., they are "in" - Right?

If the same person does only good deeds throughout their life, they are "out" - Right? (remember deeds don't count)

So using this logic, someone can do #1, and beyond that, they can be the biggest jerk on the planet, rob, rape, murder, spit on sidewalks, these don't count cause they are just "deeds" and deeds don't count, thus they are still "in".

Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaay got it
I can understand your astonishment and disgust at such teaching Asheville Native. Did you see how my thread on heaven was trashed? They condemned that beautiful little girl who met Jesus at age 4 in her crib!
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:51 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,803 posts, read 7,374,121 times
Reputation: 2960
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
OK, so let me get this straight, there is sin, and there are deeds, right?

Sin really rankles this god, right?
Deeds are filthy rags (what ever the hell that means) and this god don't care about them. Right?

So if someone kowtows, says all the right words, etc., they are "in" - Right?

If the same person does only good deeds throughout their life, they are "out" - Right? (remember deeds don't count)

So using this logic, someone can do #1, and beyond that, they can be the biggest jerk on the planet, rob, rape, murder, spit on sidewalks, these don't count cause they are just "deeds" and deeds don't count, thus they are still "in".

Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaay got it
I don't think that is how it works. The only good deed was Jesus dying on the cross for our sins. Just saying the right words won't do it because if you are saved your fruit will be love.

At the same time your flesh will still sin, you will still do any number of sins but God sees Jesus on the cross. The freedom you have in Christ is in the 613 laws, most of which are just controls. You are free from those but the sins that require love will be accomplished with Godís help, not our hard work.
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:00 PM
 
5,906 posts, read 5,188,849 times
Reputation: 4536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
So using this logic, someone can do #1, and beyond that, they can be the biggest jerk on the planet, rob, rape, murder, spit on sidewalks, these don't count cause they are just "deeds" and deeds don't count, thus they are still "in".
That would definitely explain the present prison population, crime, scandals, FOXNews, and pretty much every other ill corrupting our nation.

Sorry kids, Nancy Reagan was right...

JUST SAY NO!
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,293,336 times
Reputation: 869
Thanks Sven for the link! You knew just what I was looking for!

Just a comment on posts so far here:
we all seem to have a really good idea of just how "bad" sin is, and just how "far" it has reached. Let's keep in mind, that God caused this spreading of sin by using what is called "the Law." The Law was good, but it couldn't repair the curse.

It's funny though how we "downplay" the extent of grace. "As sin abounded, grace did much MORE abound." If sin is rampant in society today, you can be gospel-sure that Grace is even more rampant!

It's also funny how we have no problem attributing Adam's sin to everyone around us. Adam sinned, and we pay!
But let's remember that Christ's obedience to the Father was also attributed to mankind. "God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself (did He succeed?), not counting their trespasses against them."

2 Cor. 5 also states that Christ died for all, therefore ALL are dead. That means all, folks. You, me, and everyone else. We're dead, we died with Christ. And those who are dead are FREED FROM SIN. It is a spiritual mystery that happened on the cross. Our old man Adam, which we still have in us, died 2,000 years ago, freeing us from condemnation which was in Adam!
Then Christ Jesus AROSE from the dead, and in doing so, imparted the new man into the hearts of all of us. And it is HE who must arise in our hearts, whether by "free will" or by God's supreme will, it makes no difference to me. The new man in us is awaiting to ARISE, and when we "let the dead bury the dead" and let Christ who is our Life arise in us, we are entering Sonship and the Kingdom of Heaven!

So who are those who are condemned to destruction? The old man, which we all have in us, which is dead, and which cannot in any way please God. The righteous rise unto eternal life, the wicked unto "eternal damnation."

Questions? Critiques? Thoughts?

Blessings to all,
brian
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:14 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,981,174 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
I can understand your astonishment and disgust at such teaching Asheville Native. Did you see how my thread on heaven was trashed? They condemned that beautiful little girl who met Jesus at age 4 in her crib!
Sadly yes, and they feel justified in doing so in their self-righteous hatred. Sad, and sick.

There is no hatred as pure and irrational as that wrapped in the justification of religion.
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:19 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,981,174 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayneinspain View Post
That would definitely explain the present prison population, crime, scandals, FOXNews, and pretty much every other ill corrupting our nation.

Sorry kids, Nancy Reagan was right...

JUST SAY NO!
And prison statistics confirm your point.

75% of the US population is christian
75% of the US prison population is christian; a 1:1 ratio

15% of the US population are atheists
0.2% of the us prison population are atheists; a 75:1 ratio, how can that be, they are godless heathens, who actually have a stronger moral compass than the self-righteous christians
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,766,117 times
Reputation: 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Thanks Sven for the link! You knew just what I was looking for!

Just a comment on posts so far here:
we all seem to have a really good idea of just how "bad" sin is, and just how "far" it has reached. Let's keep in mind, that God caused this spreading of sin by using what is called "the Law." The Law was good, but it couldn't repair the curse.

It's funny though how we "downplay" the extent of grace. "As sin abounded, grace did much MORE abound." If sin is rampant in society today, you can be gospel-sure that Grace is even more rampant!

It's also funny how we have no problem attributing Adam's sin to everyone around us. Adam sinned, and we pay!
But let's remember that Christ's obedience to the Father was also attributed to mankind. "God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself (did He succeed?), not counting their trespasses against them."

2 Cor. 5 also states that Christ died for all, therefore ALL are dead. That means all, folks. You, me, and everyone else. We're dead, we died with Christ. And those who are dead are FREED FROM SIN. It is a spiritual mystery that happened on the cross. Our old man Adam, which we still have in us, died 2,000 years ago, freeing us from condemnation which was in Adam!
Then Christ Jesus AROSE from the dead, and in doing so, imparted the new man into the hearts of all of us. And it is HE who must arise in our hearts, whether by "free will" or by God's supreme will, it makes no difference to me. The new man in us is awaiting to ARISE, and when we "let the dead bury the dead" and let Christ who is our Life arise in us, we are entering Sonship and the Kingdom of Heaven!

So who are those who are condemned to destruction? The old man, which we all have in us, which is dead, and which cannot in any way please God. The righteous rise unto eternal life, the wicked unto "eternal damnation."

Questions? Critiques? Thoughts?

Blessings to all,
brian
Amen, Brian. Jesus said he would lose nothing God had given him.

While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. - John 17:12

Whoever says he is without sin is a liar. All have two seeds bound up in them. Only God can thresh the wheat and burn the chaff.

Heartsong
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:58 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,249 posts, read 659,543 times
Reputation: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Thanks Sven for the link! You knew just what I was looking for!

Just a comment on posts so far here:
we all seem to have a really good idea of just how "bad" sin is, and just how "far" it has reached. Let's keep in mind, that God caused this spreading of sin by using what is called "the Law." The Law was good, but it couldn't repair the curse.

It's funny though how we "downplay" the extent of grace. "As sin abounded, grace did much MORE abound." If sin is rampant in society today, you can be gospel-sure that Grace is even more rampant!

It's also funny how we have no problem attributing Adam's sin to everyone around us. Adam sinned, and we pay!
But let's remember that Christ's obedience to the Father was also attributed to mankind. "God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself (did He succeed?), not counting their trespasses against them."

2 Cor. 5 also states that Christ died for all, therefore ALL are dead. That means all, folks. You, me, and everyone else. We're dead, we died with Christ. And those who are dead are FREED FROM SIN. It is a spiritual mystery that happened on the cross. Our old man Adam, which we still have in us, died 2,000 years ago, freeing us from condemnation which was in Adam!
Then Christ Jesus AROSE from the dead, and in doing so, imparted the new man into the hearts of all of us. And it is HE who must arise in our hearts, whether by "free will" or by God's supreme will, it makes no difference to me. The new man in us is awaiting to ARISE, and when we "let the dead bury the dead" and let Christ who is our Life arise in us, we are entering Sonship and the Kingdom of Heaven!

So who are those who are condemned to destruction? The old man, which we all have in us, which is dead, and which cannot in any way please God. The righteous rise unto eternal life, the wicked unto "eternal damnation."

Questions? Critiques? Thoughts?

Blessings to all,
brian
Brian, In a sense a agree that we are "dead" but I do not think that is the totality of it ...... we are dead because we will (future tense) die if we are not regenerated -- that is everyone .... In Christ is regeneration and we pass from death to life, if we are not regenerated in this life now wrath remains and there will be death and judgment we are also told that which is sown is not quickened/raised unless it dies --- it is the process that happens -- I agree with you and believe the second death is "the judgment" on the "old man" and that wrath leads to life.......



Quote:
It's funny though how we "downplay" the extent of grace. "As sin abounded, grace did much MORE abound." If sin is rampant in society today, you can be gospel-sure that Grace is even more rampant!
Another comment is that just as we can downplay the extent of the grace we can downplay the judgment and wrath that comes upon .......... evil deeds
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:00 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,249 posts, read 659,543 times
Reputation: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Amen, Brian. Jesus said he would lose nothing God had given him.

While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. - John 17:12

Whoever says he is without sin is a liar. All have two seeds bound up in them. Only God can thresh the wheat and burn the chaff.

Heartsong
Amen Heartsong
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