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Old 08-18-2010, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
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Keep in mind that verse separations were added into the text.

As were chapter delineations, chapter headings.

Italicized words were added because translators hoped they would make better sense in English, but they only make sense if you are reading the text with the same dogmas in mind as the translator held. With the KJV at least there was an honesty, by leaving them in italics it is to tell the reader that there is no corresponding Hebrew/Greek word there in the text.

There are chapters where you can see plainly that the translators ended a chapter a group of verses too early.
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Old 08-18-2010, 06:49 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Keep in mind that verse separations were added into the text.

As were chapter delineations, chapter headings.

Italicized words were added because translators hoped they would make better sense in English, but they only make sense if you are reading the text with the same dogmas in mind as the translator held. With the KJV at least there was an honesty, by leaving them in italics it is to tell the reader that there is no corresponding Hebrew/Greek word there in the text.

There are chapters where you can see plainly that the translators ended a chapter a group of verses too early.
I do wonder how much of todays bad theology is due to verses and chapters.
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Old 08-18-2010, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
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Genesis is a great example. Chapter 2 cuts the first chapter into goofy segments. Chapter 2 should have started in verse 4.

Chapter 2:1 is really a continuation of the previous context.



If you are familiar with the Uncil at all, then you realise that commas and periods are all added into the text.

I know one huge doctrine that hangs completely on a comma.

With the comma in the passage churches develop one doctrine, ignore a few other passages on the same topic and they end up with an all encompassing dogma.

Remove the comma from the passage and it reads completely differently [and it then rings in a much better harmony with other passages on the same topic].
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Old 08-18-2010, 07:10 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Genesis is a great example. Chapter 2 cuts the first chapter into goofy segments. Chapter 2 should have started in verse 4.

Chapter 2:1 is really a continuation of the previous context.



If you are familiar with the Uncil at all, then you realise that commas and periods are all added into the text.

I know one huge doctrine that hangs completely on a comma.

With the comma in the passage churches develop one doctrine, ignore a few other passages on the same topic and they end up with an all encompassing dogma.

Remove the comma from the passage and it reads completely differently [and it then rings in a much better harmony with other passages on the same topic].
What is that doctrine and verse in question?
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Old 08-18-2010, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
What is that doctrine and verse in question?
See if this sounds familiar:

"Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Or is it

"Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise."



The Uncil source document for this has no commas.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:53 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
See if this sounds familiar:

"Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Or is it

"Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise."



The Uncil source document for this has no commas.
Interesting, was there any other thing in the original that givs a hint about the meaning?
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:03 PM
 
40,297 posts, read 26,868,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
See if this sounds familiar:

"Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Or is it

"Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise."



The Uncil source document for this has no commas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Interesting, was there any other thing in the original that givs a hint about the meaning?
The order of the "shalt' and "thou" gives the placement of the comma syntactically. If it was meant to modify the initial phrase as in the second example . . . it would have reversed the order of the "shalt" and "thou" eg.

"Verily I say unto thee today, thou shalt be with me in paradise."

So . . . the first comma is placed correctly given the syntax, eg.


"Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise."
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,754 posts, read 49,586,897 times
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Either Jesus was saying that the other man would immediately go to paradise; or he was saying that the other man would go to paradise at some undetermined time.

Which is best supported by other passages?
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:58 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
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I still see a lot of versing going on, time to bump this.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:53 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
I think one of the biggest problems in understanding the bible is the fact that we have numbered verses. I see so many people post a verse or two to back up their beliefs, when the verse is just part of an over all letter.

I think it would help to read the bible without numbered verses, are there any available?

Did ya just figure that out????....
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