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Old 07-02-2010, 07:13 PM
 
Location: New England
32,221 posts, read 21,094,471 times
Reputation: 2274

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Let's try one more time
2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also fora the sins of the whole world.

I have not once implied that when John says "for ours" , He is talking about anyone but believers , where i strongly disagree with you is the "also" which you believe is Israel(the jewish world) , i believe it's the world period .

Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too.Romans 3 verse 29

Again He made out of the two one new man , which is a brand new creation , which bears no resemblance to anything of this world by word , name or deed.

Last edited by pcamps; 07-02-2010 at 07:33 PM..

 
Old 07-02-2010, 07:26 PM
 
40,039 posts, read 26,720,362 times
Reputation: 6047
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Again, another uneducated poster that has no idea about the language or the various meanings and words that pertain to anything in the scriptures. Didn;pt I tell you to buya couple of books....not UR books.... Here's a little remedial help for you...the first definition of kosmos is:

an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government.

Hmmm...sounds like Israel in covenant to me, especially in the context of a conversation with a Pharisee LOL strike two...want another pitch?

Try me Mystic, you will fail in this debate and resort to savage name calling...I can guarantee it.
OK. Strong's G2889 - kosmos
κόσμος
Transliteration
kosmos
Pronunciation
ko'-smos
Outline of Biblical Usage

1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government

2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3

3) the world, the universe

I realze they are hard to read with the Strong's numbers in the verses . . . but I'm too tired to delete them. BUT . . . using the obvious context for its use in these verses . . . which of the three definitions do you think is most prevalent? Try substituting "Israel" for "the world" and see how much sense it ever makes.


Mat 25:34 Then 5119 shall the King 935 say 2046 unto them on 1537 his 846 right hand 1188, Come 1205 , ye blessed 2127 of my 3450 Father 3962, inherit 2816 the kingdom 932 prepared 2090 for you 5213 from 575 the foundation 2602 of the world 2889:

Mat 26:13 Verily 281 I say 3004 unto you 5213, Wheresoever 3699 1437 this 5124 gospel 2098 shall be preached 2784 in 1722 the whole 3650 world 2889, [there] shall also 2532 this, that 3739 this woman 3778 846 hath done 4160 , be told 2980 for 1519 a memorial 3422 of her 846.

Mar 8:36 For 1063 what 5101 shall it profit 5623 a man 444, if 1437 he shall gain 2770 the whole 3650 world 2889, and 2532 lose 2210 his own 846 soul 5590?

Mar 14:9 Verily 281 I say 3004 unto you 5213, Wheresoever 3699 302 this 5124 gospel 2098 shall be preached 2784 throughout 1519 the whole 3650 world 2889, [this] also 2532 that 3739 she 3778 846 hath done 4160 shall be spoken 2980 of for 1519 a memorial 3422 of her 846.

Mar 16:15 And 2532 he said 2036 unto them 846, Go ye 4198 into 1519 all 537 the world 2889, and preach 2784 the gospel 2098 to every 3956 creature 2937.

Luk 9:25 For 1063 what 5101 is 5623 0 a man 444 advantaged 5623 , if he gain 2770 the whole 3650 world 2889, and 1161 lose 622 himself 1438, or 2228 be cast away 2210 ?

Luk 11:50 That 2443 the blood 129 of all 3956 the prophets 4396, which 3588 was shed 1632 from 575 the foundation 2602 of the world 2889, may be required 1567 of 575 this 5026 generation 1074;

Luk 12:30 For 1063 all 3956 these things 5023 do 1934 0 the nations 1484 of the world 2889 seek after 1934 : and 1161 your 5216 Father 3962 knoweth 1492 that 3754 ye have need 5535 of these things 5130.

Jhn 1:9 [That] was 2258 the true 228 Light 5457, which 3739 lighteth 5461 every man 3956 444 that cometh 2064 into 1519 the world 2889.

Jhn 1:10 He was 2258 in 1722 the world 2889, and 2532 the world 2889 was made 1096 by 1223 him 846, and 2532 the world 2889 knew 1097 him 846 not 3756.

Jhn 1:29 The next day 1887 John 2491 seeth 991 Jesus 2424 coming 2064 unto 4314 him 846, and 2532 saith 3004 , Behold 2396 the Lamb 286 of God 2316, which 3588 taketh away 142 the sin 266 of the world 2889.

Jhn 3:16 For 1063 God 2316 so 3779 loved 25 the world 2889, that 5620 he gave 1325 his 846 only begotten 3439 Son 5207, that 2443 whosoever 3956 believeth 4100 in 1519 him 846 should 622 0 not 3361 perish 622 , but 235 have 2192 everlasting 166 life 2222.

Jhn 3:17 For 1063 God 2316 sent 649 not 3756 his 846 Son 5207 into 1519 the world 2889 to 2443 condemn 2919 the world 2889; but 235 that 2443 the world 2889 through 1223 him 846 might be saved 4982 .

Jhn 3:19 And 1161 this 3778 is 2076 the condemnation 2920, that 3754 light 5457 is come 2064 into 1519 the world 2889, and 2532 men 444 loved 25 darkness 4655 rather 3123 than 2228 light 5457, because 1063 their 846 deeds 2041 were 2258 evil 4190.

Jhn 4:42 And 5037 said 3004 unto the woman 1135, 3754 Now 3765 we believe 4100 , not 3754 because 1223 of thy 4674 saying 2981: for 1063 we have heard 191 [him] ourselves 846, and 2532 know 1492 that 3754 this 3778 is 2076 indeed 230 the Christ 5547, the Saviour 4990 of the world 2889.

Jhn 6:14 Then 3767 those men 444, when they had seen 1492 the miracle 4592 that 3739 Jesus 2424 did 4160 , said 3004 , This 3754 3778 is 2076 of a truth 230 that prophet 4396 that should come 2064 into 1519 the world 2889.

Jhn 6:33 For 1063 the bread 740 of God 2316 is he 2076 which 3588 cometh down 2597 from 1537 heaven 3772, and 2532 giveth 1325 life 2222 unto the world 2889.

Jhn 6:51 I 1473 am 1510 the living 2198 bread 740 which 3588 came down 2597 from 1537 heaven 3772: if 1437 any man 5100 eat 5315 of 1537 this 5127 bread 740, he shall live 2198 for 1519 ever 165: and 1161 2532 the bread 740 that 3739 I 1473 will give 1325 is 2076 my 3450 flesh 4561, which 3739 I 1473 will give 1325 for 5228 the life 2222 of the world 2889.
 
Old 07-02-2010, 09:09 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,770,564 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
No you are incorrect. Those scriptures strictly support that God loves Israel, it was Israel who He came to save, and it was Israel who is regarded as the object of His love, Jew and Gentile, living under His covenant.



Eisegsis. Again, 1 Tim 2:4 has nothing to do with what God is going to do.
He already has done what He needs to do, and that is offer salvation through Christ, and nowhere does it mean God will save everybody

Good grief.
Then you shouldn't have said God will do what He pleases, because obviously you did not mean that.
 
Old 07-02-2010, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I wish you would respond to my posts. There are most certainly passages of scripture in the New Testament which are directed at the Jews, but certainly not all passages. And just because you (a Gentile) are inwardly an Israelite doesn't mean that those "outsiders" (both Jews of flesh and Gentiles alike) are not loved by God. ENEMIES for the gospel's sake but FRIENDS of God. Are you just going to chuck that verse out of the Bible? And what does it mean?

You really aren't making much sense.
Sorry for not addressing you......now which verse(s) would you like me to respond to?
 
Old 07-02-2010, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
Reputation: 420
Mystic...

Isa 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou [art] my people.

The world to God, where the Heavens and Earth meet, is in Zion. Deal with it.
The principal subject of John 3:16 is Christ as the Gift of God of Israel, in the context of the Covenant between Him and them....see verse 1.

The first clause tells us what moved God to "give" His only begotten Son, and that was His great "love;" the second clause informs us for whom God "gave" His Son, and that is for, "whosoever (or, better, every one) believeth" ....while the last clause makes known why God "gave" His Son (His purpose), and that is, that everyone that believeth "should not perish but have everlasting life."

It is clear that "the world" in John 3:16 refers to the world of believers (God's elect), in contra-distinction from "the world of the ungodly" (2 Pet. 2:5), is established, unequivocally established, by a comparison of the other passages which speak of God's "love." "God commendeth His love toward US" the saints, Romans 5:8. "Whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth" every son, Hebrews 12:6. "We love Him, because He first loved US" believers, 1 John 4:19. The wicked God "pities" (see Matt. 18:33). Unto the unthankful and evil God is "kind" (see Luke 6:35). The vessels of wrath He endures "with much long-suffering" (see Rom. 9:22). But "His own" God "loves"!

Try again....you fail....another round?
 
Old 07-02-2010, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Then you shouldn't have said God will do what He pleases, because obviously you did not mean that.
I meant every bit of it, it is just you have infused 1 Tim 2:4 into that.
1 Tim 2:4 has nothing to do with God doing as He pleases....get it?
 
Old 07-02-2010, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Let's try one more time
2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also fora the sins of the whole world.

I have not once implied that when John says "for ours" , He is talking about anyone but believers , where i strongly disagree with you is the "also" which you believe is Israel(the jewish world) , i believe it's the world period .

Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too.Romans 3 verse 29

Again He made out of the two one new man , which is a brand new creation , which bears no resemblanence to anything of this world by word , name or deed.
But only from the Heavenly Jerusalem that is above...which makes you an Israelite. Stop thinking in carnal terms, as Flesh Israel...they are finished as far as God is concerned...Rev 18:23....we are Israel of the spirit..deny all you want, but the scriptures speak against your claim.
 
Old 07-02-2010, 09:41 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,770,564 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I meant every bit of it, it is just you have infused 1 Tim 2:4 into that.
1 Tim 2:4 has nothing to do with God doing as He pleases....get it?
No.
 
Old 07-02-2010, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
No.
Pray on it...read the whole books of 1 and 2 Timothy and parse the scriptures in question, and analyze them with your concordance and lexicons....I like the Exegetics and Linguistic of the New Testament...a neccessity for any....focus on THELO.
Here's a start with the word THELO that defines it well.....

Matt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would (THELO) I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would (THELO) not!

In a nutshell...the apostate Jews usurped God's will?
Then THELO is not what you impose into 1 Tim 2:4
It is not a decreed order that God will carry out.
It is simply, a benign desire.
He wants us not to sin, but we sin. Get it?
 
Old 07-02-2010, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,489,596 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Sorry for not addressing you......now which verse(s) would you like me to respond to?
I woudln't mind a response to post #176. I don't want to double post.
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