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Old 07-02-2010, 10:10 PM
 
40,099 posts, read 26,767,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Mystic...

Isa 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou [art] my people.

The world to God, where the Heavens and Earth meet, is in Zion. Deal with it.
The principal subject of John 3:16 is Christ as the Gift of God of Israel, in the context of the Covenant between Him and them....see verse 1.

The first clause tells us what moved God to "give" His only begotten Son, and that was His great "love;" the second clause informs us for whom God "gave" His Son, and that is for, "whosoever (or, better, every one) believeth" ....while the last clause makes known why God "gave" His Son (His purpose), and that is, that everyone that believeth "should not perish but have everlasting life."

It is clear that "the world" in John 3:16 refers to the world of believers (God's elect), in contra-distinction from "the world of the ungodly" (2 Pet. 2:5), is established, unequivocally established, by a comparison of the other passages which speak of God's "love." "God commendeth His love toward US" the saints, Romans 5:8. "Whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth" every son, Hebrews 12:6. "We love Him, because He first loved US" believers, 1 John 4:19. The wicked God "pities" (see Matt. 18:33). Unto the unthankful and evil God is "kind" (see Luke 6:35). The vessels of wrath He endures "with much long-suffering" (see Rom. 9:22). But "His own" God "loves"!

Try again....you fail....another round?
If this kind of ignorant rambling and floundering around is how you answer a very specific post . . . then your scholarship is simply not up to the task of dealing with someone who is intimately familiar with the scriptures and the origins of the words in the various translations, the various contexts, cultural idioms, and the overall context that is established by the nature of God. You seem not to even want to try to understand. Apparently you have been too strongly indoctrinated to actually think for yourself. Epic fail.

 
Old 07-02-2010, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,437,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Acts 17:28 (People's New Testament) Certain also of your own poets. Aratus, who wrote about 200 years before. Also Cleanthes, in his Hymn to Jupiter.

OR

Acts 17:28. (NIV) 'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

Below is the sermon to the Pagans who worshiped multiple gods.

Paul says THEY (Pagans), TOO, were the ONE True God's children.



In context: Good News Translation.

Acts 17:22. Paul stood up in front of the city council and said, "I see that in every way you Athenians are very religious.

Acts 17:23. For as I walked through your city and looked at the places where you worship, I found an altar on which is written, "To an Unknown God.' That which you worship, then, even though you do not know it, is what I now proclaim to you.

Acts 17:24. God, who made the world and everything in it, is Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands.

Acts 17:25. Nor does he need anything that we can supply by working for him, since it is he himself who gives life and breath and everything else to everyone.

Acts 17:26. From one human being he created all races of people and made them live throughout the whole earth. He himself fixed beforehand the exact times and the limits of the places where they would live.

Acts 17:27. He did this so that they would look for him, and perhaps find him as they felt around for him. Yet God is actually not far from any one of us;

Acts 17:28. as someone has said, "In him we live and move and exist.' It is as some of your poets have said, "We too are his children.'

Acts 17:29. Since we are God's children (Pagans, not yet "saved"), we should not suppose that his nature is anything like an image of gold or silver or stone, shaped by human art and skill.

Acts 17:30. God has overlooked the times when people did not know him, but now he commands all of them everywhere to turn away from their evil ways.
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead.

What does it take as Paul was clearly pointing out at the close of his prologue, how they are God's children?......repenting.

Do you have some more?
 
Old 07-02-2010, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,437,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
If this kind of ignorant rambling and floundering around is how you answer a very specific post . . . then your scholarship is simply not up to the task of dealing with someone who is intimately familiar with the scriptures and the origins of the words in the various translations, the various contexts, cultural idioms, and the overall context that is established by the nature of God. You seem not to even want to try to understand. Apparently you have been too strongly indoctrinated to actually think for yourself. Epic fail.
I think it is you who has failed to understand it.
As you have shown....your post was answered....context defines everything, a task you fail at every time from what I have seen.
 
Old 07-02-2010, 10:33 PM
 
40,099 posts, read 26,767,323 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I think it is you who has failed to understand it.
As you have shown....your post was answered....context defines everything, a task you fail at every time from what I have seen.
It is ridiculous that you can rationalize the absurd context that the Almighty God of Everything that Exists would devote His efforts only to a tiny minority of our species in a remote backwater of humanity as the entire focus of His purpose . . . and then selectively add SOME others based on the ego-gratification they are willing to provide by specifically acknowledging Him.
 
Old 07-02-2010, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,493,177 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead.

What does it take as Paul was clearly pointing out at the close of his prologue, how they are God's children?......repenting.

Do you have some more?

No, sciotamicks. The verse clearly says they are God's children BEFORE they repent (though they are still under wrath, if you understand what that means. Most people do not). Maybe you can re-read my post. Wasn't that your argument? That the rest of the entire globe is not loved and are not God's children before they repent?

Last edited by herefornow; 07-02-2010 at 11:17 PM..
 
Old 07-03-2010, 01:33 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,437,325 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It is ridiculous that you can rationalize the absurd context that the Almighty God of Everything that Exists would devote His efforts only to a tiny minority of our species in a remote backwater of humanity as the entire focus of His purpose . . . and then selectively add SOME others based on the ego-gratification they are willing to provide by specifically acknowledging Him.
I knew you would go there.....ahem..

Last edited by sciotamicks; 07-03-2010 at 01:52 AM..
 
Old 07-03-2010, 01:39 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,437,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
No, sciotamicks. The verse clearly says they are God's children BEFORE they repent
I have shown countless scriptures that prove you wrong. You bring one...and it doesn't even imply what you are trying to present. It is obvious, Paul is quoting their poet in the previous verse, and since Paul is addressing the topic of the UNKNOWN GOD, as they worship many gods the culture he speaks to, what a wonderful way to bring together the context of their UNKNOWN GOD and liken it with the GOd of Abraham. This is a rather beautiful area of the scripture, however, you toy with it. to promote your Universal Salvation theme, where in it is quite obvious, as to what Paul is trying to have his listeners realize. That through their repentance, they will be truly the children of God. Stop staring at one verse herefornow, and read the entire message.
This is where all of you fail terribly.

One of the many commentaries, that all of the UR crowd, from what it appears, reject on a regular basis...what a shame:

A word for word, of an astronomical poem of Aratus, a Greek countryman of the apostle, and his predecessor by about three centuries. But, as he hints, the same sentiment is to be found in other Greek poets. They meant it doubtless in a pantheistic sense; but the truth which it expresses the apostle turns to his own purpose--to teach a pure, personal, spiritual Theism. (Probably during his quiet retreat at Tarsus. Act 9:30 , revolving his special vocation to the Gentiles he gave himself to the study of so much Greek literature as might be turned to Christian account in his future work. Hence this and his other quotations from the Greek poets, 1Cr 15:33 Tts 1:12 ). All men every where to repent--(compare Col 1:6, 23 Tts 1:11 ) --a tacit allusion to the narrow precincts of favored Judaism, within which immediate and entire repentance was ever urged. The word "repentance" is here used (as in Luk 13:3, 5 15:10 ) in its most comprehensive sense of "repentance unto life."

Quote:
though they are still under wrath,
Then you contradict yourself...LOL...this is what we deal with on a regular basis with your crowd. You fail again. Stop corrupting His word please.

Quote:
if you understand what that means. Most people do not.
I will take Christ's word over yours....anyday.

Last edited by sciotamicks; 07-03-2010 at 01:53 AM..
 
Old 07-03-2010, 01:57 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,493,177 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I have shown countless scriptures that prove you wrong. You bring one...and it doesn't even imply what you are trying to present. It is obvious, Paul is quoting their poet in the previous verse, and since Paul is addressing the topic of the UNKNOWN GOD, as they worship many gods the culture he speaks to, what a wonderful way to bring together the context of their UNKNOWN GOD and liken it with the GOd of Abraham. This is a rather beautiful area of the scripture, however, you toy with it. to promote your Universal Salvation theme, where in it is quite obvious, as to what Paul is trying to have his listeners realize. That through their repentance, they will be truly the children of God. Stop staring at one verse herefornow, and read the entire message.
This is where all of you fail terribly.

One of the many commentaries, that all of the UR crowd, from what it appears, reject on a regular basis...what a shame:

A word for word, of an astronomical poem of Aratus, a Greek countryman of the apostle, and his predecessor by about three centuries. But, as he hints, the same sentiment is to be found in other Greek poets. They meant it doubtless in a pantheistic sense; but the truth which it expresses the apostle turns to his own purpose--to teach a pure, personal, spiritual Theism. (Probably during his quiet retreat at Tarsus. Act 9:30 , revolving his special vocation to the Gentiles he gave himself to the study of so much Greek literature as might be turned to Christian account in his future work. Hence this and his other quotations from the Greek poets, 1Cr 15:33 Tts 1:12 ). All men every where to repent--(compare Col 1:6, 23 Tts 1:11 ) --a tacit allusion to the narrow precincts of favored Judaism, within which immediate and entire repentance was ever urged. The word "repentance" is here used (as in Luk 13:3, 5 15:10 ) in its most comprehensive sense of "repentance unto life."



Then you contradict yourself...LOL...this is what we deal with on a regular basis with your crowd. You fail again. Stop corrupting His word please.
Sciotamicks, I know the Bible quite well, as I grew up in an ultra-conservative church/school and Baptist church. Really.

And I have most certainly not contradicted myself, but I do find it interesting that you and your teachers need to write essays to explain a scripture. You twist much more than you realize.

This was a sermon to PAGANS who believed in multiple gods and were being told they had missed one; THE one true God, who fathered them all. Twist that as much as you want, sciotamicks. I have been reading the posts between you and Mystic and I know the point he is trying to make, and I know your counterpoint. Paul says in Acts 17:29 that the pagans were God's children. It cannot get simpler than that.

Acts 17:29. Since we are God's children -------->>>>>>(Pagans, not yet "saved"), we should not suppose that his nature is anything like an image of gold or silver or stone, shaped by human art and skill.

It says the same thing whether you read it out of context or in context. I don't need to go to seminary to figure it out.

Last edited by herefornow; 07-03-2010 at 02:07 AM..
 
Old 07-03-2010, 02:50 AM
 
Location: New England
32,243 posts, read 21,127,372 times
Reputation: 2281
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
But only from the Heavenly Jerusalem that is above...which makes you an Israelite. Stop thinking in carnal terms, as Flesh Israel...they are finished as far as God is concerned...Rev 18:23....we are Israel of the spirit..deny all you want, but the scriptures speak against your claim.
It's nothing to do with thinking in terms of the flesh, i have been talking about the new man(whih is created in His image) the whole time , it's actually you who somehow thinks out of the two(jew?Israeli and gentile) He made an Israeli , again the new man is a new creation , not a new Israel ,not a man that has become spirtually a new Israeli, not even a new creation which is pronounced a new Israeli at the point of being newly created.

Last edited by pcamps; 07-03-2010 at 03:16 AM..
 
Old 07-03-2010, 02:58 AM
 
Location: New England
32,243 posts, read 21,127,372 times
Reputation: 2281
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
No, sciotamicks. The verse clearly says they are God's children BEFORE they repent (though they are still under wrath, if you understand what that means. Most people do not). Maybe you can re-read my post. Wasn't that your argument? That the rest of the entire globe is not loved and are not God's children before they repent?
Herefornow yes it's clear Paul said they were His offspring before they had even heard the good news and repented.

The message (i will not call it the gospel because it certainly is not good news) of the orthodox church is designed and set up to exclude all who do not conform to it's beliefs , it has no knowledge and understanding of the grace and mercy of God shown to them and in the cases it were it does, shows the same attitude of the wicked servant in Matthew 18 , 23-25.
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