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Old 07-03-2010, 03:51 PM
 
159 posts, read 150,395 times
Reputation: 46

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Quote:
Not my job. You either respond to the Gospel..or you don't. I threw the seed out....that's it...God germinates if He feels there is good work in you for Him and His praise and glory. Luckily, unbelievably lucky, I am to be part of that. So lucky!
You don't really have a way to show to anyone why is Bible better than other text like it, then? You aren't even interested.

Quote:
No..my computer is not evil, but I can do evil on it.
It's build by reason (some who invented it where famous unbelievers, like Alan Turing). You said reason = original sin. As Steve Dutch noted, if the Satan is "the father of lies" and "there is no truth in him" (John 8:44), and "a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit ", then how could these people produce something useful?

Quote:
First of all, notice that the text in Matthew does not say that Judas died as a result of hanging. All it says is that he "went and hanged himself." Luke however, in Acts, tells us that "and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out." This is a pretty clear indication (along with the other details given in Acts - Peter's speech, the need to pick a new apostle, etc.) that at least after Judas' fall, he was dead. So the whole concept that Matthew and Luke both recount Judas' death is highly probable, but not clear cut. Therefore, if I were to take a radical exegetical approach here, I could invalidate your alleged contradiction that there are two different accounts of how Judas died.

In addition the Greek word APAGCHO used to describe Judas's hanging of himself was only used one other time in the Bible, it's only used in 2 Samuel 17:23 : "Now when Ahithophel saw that his advice was not followed, he saddled a donkey, and arose and went home to his house, to his city. Then he put his household in order, and hanged himself, and died; and he was buried in his father's tomb." Notice that not only is it stated that Ahithophel "hanged himself" ... but it explicitly adds, "and died". Here we have no doubt of the result. In Matthew, we are not explicitly told Judas died. Also, there is nothing in the Greek to suggest success or failure. It simply means "hang oneself." Matthew doesn't necessarily explain how Judas died; he does say Judas "hanged himself", but he didn't specifically say Judas died in the hanging incident. However, Acts seems to show us his graphic demise. Therefore, there is no contradiction between Matthew and Acts
This explanation, by itself highly dubious, doesn't explain contradiction on what Judas did with the money he got from betraying Jesus. In Matthew he threw money into the temple. In acts he bought a field. The reasons why field is called Field of Blood is different, too. The Bible simply cannot be perfect no matter how much you twist and turn. Not that it is a problem to me, it could be partly inspired or plenty other things but it can't be 100% without error.

So yes, even with that, Matthew and Acts do differ in description considerably.

Quote:
It isn't about our flesh. It is about the spirit. As far as God is concerned, a Jew is just as dead asa HItler. What he did was evil yes, and what many of the Jews did were not evil, but they are both without excuse.
So why differ between them? The only moral law seems to be "Accept Jesus" , everything else is there just for fun? Is God more or less subtle than we? Aren't there any other stories in this vast universe (God supposedly built) except this?

Last edited by python87; 07-03-2010 at 04:57 PM..

 
Old 07-03-2010, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,302,437 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by python87 View Post

So why differ between them?
Very very good question.
Some verses in scripture lead us to believe that there will be more or less rewards/punishments, depending on the situation.
However, most fundamentalist groups are black and white, in or out.

I was good at condemning them all, whether Hitler or my mom, it made no difference. According to my doctrine, they were all worthy of hell.
That's what ET was doing to me. It wasn't always in words, but in my heart it was always happening.

Blessings,
brian
 
Old 07-03-2010, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,446,688 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
It was not the resurrection that drew them at all , they had no faith or understanding of such a thing until after He rose from the dead .
Did I just read what I thought I just read?

You are saying the disciples had no faith in understanding of Jesus' rising from the dead, or that He was who He said He was?
Or are you talking about the learned men they spoke to?

Act 4:2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Yes...the topic is the ressurrection...but I wasn't even addressing that. I was addressing that the gospel follows the resurrection to its core. UR denies the resurrection unto life now, and allows those dead to be raised in Christ upon cofession, without a BODY!

It isn't about the doctrines of men. It is about the doctrine of the scriptures, and UR cannot get around the themes...period. The resurrection and marriage is for ISRAEL only, and it is in ISRAEL where the covenant always lay, and it is of the spirit that which is reconciled to God and man through Christ, and it is neccessary to be born of the spirit, while still in the flesh, to be accepted into the kingdom of God, and be an Israelite.

Once you die, without faith, you die eternally.

This isn't about Preterism anyway, I am just able to argue it better than most because it eliminates every doctrine around that contradicts everything Christ had ever taught, with such finesse and scriptural authority, actually 100% scriptural authority along with historical fact.
Preterism still abides by every doctrine of the reformation, it only places justification, which is at Christ's coming, in the past.

Which means we are already in the reconciled, New Heavens and Earth, I am a new Creation, and I am fully justified in my faith...FULLY.

Every bit of scripture where UR places reconciliaton as a future event, was past for Full Preterism.
It already happened. In my eyes, you and the rest of UR, call Jesus a liar. Let alone his apostles.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Sounds like a continuous lake of fire fed brimstone so it never burns out eternally for ever and ages and ages.
The worms never die.

I am a Preterist that argues from my perspective reagrding the OP...and that is what I am doing...so deal with it.
 
Old 07-03-2010, 04:07 PM
 
Location: New England
32,347 posts, read 21,193,725 times
Reputation: 2294
Sciota Mick you know very well i was referring to before He was resurrected . So your whole post is irrelevant. Read my post again i clearly stated what did these men learn from being around Jesus ? .
 
Old 07-03-2010, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,446,688 times
Reputation: 420
brian,

You can't put to death the old man after you have already died....get it?
The quickening is of the sprit, whilst you are still in the old man...so he can be put to death.
 
Old 07-03-2010, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,302,437 times
Reputation: 869
Sciotamicks,
I don't think UR "denies" or "ignores" the verses you present. It's the interpretation of those verses that is different.

To me, for example, "Israel" is symbolic for the spirit of man. From this viewpoint, the scriptures begin to open up a new understanding.

Now, someone can say that such a belief is a "doctrine of devils," but I believe that a doctrine that causes me to judge and condemn my fellow creatures is a TRUE "doctrine of devils."

Come out of her, and touch not the unclean thing (doctrines that instill hate or bitterness of any kind, etc., in your heart) and I will receive you (you will see God).

See?

Blessings,
brian

Ps. I'm off to bed, it's late!
 
Old 07-03-2010, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,446,688 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Sciota Mick you know very well i was referring to before He was resurrected . So your whole post is irrelevant. Read my post again i clearly stated what did these men learn from being around Jesus ? .
So you are saying that the disciples did not have faith in Jesus?
 
Old 07-03-2010, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,446,688 times
Reputation: 420
ahigher,

There is only one interpretation, and UR isn't it. It denies ressurection unto life.
 
Old 07-03-2010, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,693,642 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
ahigher,

There is only one interpretation, and UR isn't it. It denies ressurection unto life.
In reading the last 4 pages it is evident that you are quite wishy washy on salvation in the first place. You say it is LUCKY that you are saved... is LUCK the reason you are saved and not others? I have to say that your argument against python was filled with inconsistencies. If God does the work for salvation then man's acceptance cannot have any bearing on the man's salvation. It is all a work of God not of ourselves.

Why do you fight so hard against God saving all men regardless of their works?

Take the parable of the workers in the vineyard. The boss paid them all the same for work done. Little work... lotsa work.. same wage. And when asked if it is fair for the ones to work more to get the same pay as one who worked less the Boss says it is none of their business how he spends his money or whether or not he is generous.

How is God's generosity threatening to you? Do you feel that if you work more and believe more then you shouldn't be standing in heaven with a guy who worked less and believed less?

And without a sin nature (body) how is anyone even guilty of sin? IOW why would a non sinning entity (spirit) be punished once the sinning entity (body) is gone?
 
Old 07-03-2010, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,693,642 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
ahigher,

There is only one interpretation, and UR isn't it. It denies ressurection unto life.
ALSO - I guess I missed where UR denies resurrection unto life?
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