U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-30-2010, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,489,911 times
Reputation: 438

Advertisements

Beware the leaven of the Pharisees.

My question is this:

WHO is worthy enough for resurrection?


The below paragraphs are from the 1888 book: Universal Salvation: BIBLE PROOFS BIBLE PROOFS

(The king of Israel loved his two sons, but when the wickeder of them died, he felt at ease concerning him, was even comforted, while he still mourned over the living one. Why? Because he believed in his heart that he had gone where "the wicked cease from troubling and the weary are at rest." Job 3: 17.)


The Sadducees taught that there is no resurrection, and the Pharisees taught endless torment after death, for a portion of mankind. Jesus warned his disciples, alike, against the doctrines of each party.


This is the phrase Luke uses, but that the other evangelists do not---->>>
"They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world." But this phrase is a reply to the Pharisees who denied that some would be deemed worthy to rise. Jesus having said that all will rise, says they "having been accounted worthy," (kataxiothentes) are immortal and holy.

The lexicographers define this word thus: Donnegan, "To deem worthy, to honor, to esteem, to desire, to sue for." Greenfield," to account worthy, to esteem fit." Dr. George Campbell thus translates it: But among them who shall be honored to share in the resurrection and the other world.

The "Emphatic Diaglott" defines the phrase " having been accounted worthy." The language is this: The children of this world marry and are given in marriage but they having been accounted worthy to obtain that world, that is, the resurrection of the dead, are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.


That he taught this doctrine is evident from verse 33. "And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine."

What astonished them?

In his audience were:

1. Pharisees who believed in partial salvation. Had he taught that he would not have astonished them.

2. Sadducees, who denied the resurrection. Had he taught that, he would not have astonished them.

3. Heathen, who entertained views similar to those of the partialists of the present day.Had he taught endless punishment for a portion of mankind, he would not have astonished them.

The only doctrine that could have astonished all these classes, was the resurrection of all souls to holiness and happiness. He taught something new and different to what all these classes received. Universal salvation is the only possible view different from the doctrines of all these.

Hence Jesus warned his hearers against the old ideas.

That the final resurrection is to holiness, is evident from Paul's words in Acts 24: 15, in which he hopes for "the resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust." It is not supposable that Paul could hope, that is, desire and expect, the resurrection of the unjust, if he believed that they would rise to endless torture. The fact that he hoped for the resurrection of the unjust proves that he regarded it as a blessing to them, even.

Last edited by herefornow; 06-30-2010 at 08:33 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-01-2010, 03:23 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,759,126 times
Reputation: 1590
BIBLE PROOFS OF UNIVERSAL SALVATION;

CONTAINING THE PRINCIPAL PASSAGES OF SCRIPTURE

THAT TEACH THE FINAL HOLINESS AND HAPPINESS OF ALL MANKIND.



By J. W. HANSON, D.D.
SEVENTH EDITION.

UNIVERSALIST PUBLISHING HOUSE 1888
_________________________
BIBLE PROOFS

It's an excellent book to study! ~Heartsong
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-01-2010, 03:29 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,507,619 times
Reputation: 258
I'll text this one back. "Beware the leaven of the Pharisees. " Is that a youtube also to it elsewhere?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-01-2010, 05:01 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,286,583 times
Reputation: 869
This is a very interesting explanation. Very rarely do people talk about "who" was around Jesus while He was teaching, much less "why" they were astonished.
Even today, most people accept damnation and hell more readily than the idea of all people saved. Even unbelievers seem to "accept" the idea of hell much more than the idea of unconditional love.
I also agree that Paul could not "rejoice" in the resurrection of people into eternal torment. The word "hell" was never used by Paul, and yet he is such a central figure in Christianity!

Blessings,
brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-01-2010, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,489,911 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
BIBLE PROOFS OF UNIVERSAL SALVATION;

CONTAINING THE PRINCIPAL PASSAGES OF SCRIPTURE

THAT TEACH THE FINAL HOLINESS AND HAPPINESS OF ALL MANKIND.



By J. W. HANSON, D.D.
SEVENTH EDITION.

UNIVERSALIST PUBLISHING HOUSE 1888
_________________________
BIBLE PROOFS

It's an excellent book to study! ~Heartsong
Thanks for that info, Heartsong. I put the link at the top of my post, but I guess it doesn't stick out very much what with all the color.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic View Post
I'll text this one back. "Beware the leaven of the Pharisees. " Is that a youtube also to it elsewhere?
I'm not sure what you are asking.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
This is a very interesting explanation. Very rarely do people talk about "who" was around Jesus while He was teaching, much less "why" they were astonished.
Even today, most people accept damnation and hell more readily than the idea of all people saved. Even unbelievers seem to "accept" the idea of hell much more than the idea of unconditional love.
I also agree that Paul could not "rejoice" in the resurrection of people into eternal torment. The word "hell" was never used by Paul, and yet he is such a central figure in Christianity!

Blessings,
brian
Yes, the pagans, Jews, and even folks today, were much more likely to believe and obsess about terrible underworlds, strange things going on after you die, and angry gods duking it out rather than believe in a God of love who cares for all of his creation, even reconciling the fallen from heaven.

The pagans created the most monstrous gods and hells they could imagine, which traditional Christianity seems to have topped, if anybody can believe it.

Babylon the Great will fall. If only people knew where all of this crud comes from......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-01-2010, 05:10 PM
 
5,499 posts, read 4,572,386 times
Reputation: 5149
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Thanks for that info, Heartsong. I put the link at the top of my post, but I guess it doesn't stick out very much what with all the color.



I'm not sure what you are asking.....



Yes, the pagans, Jews, and even folks today, were much more likely to believe and obsess about terrible underworlds, strange things going on after you die, and angry gods duking it out rather than believe in a God of love who cares for all of his creation, even reconciling the fallen from heaven.

The pagans created the most monstrous gods and hells they could imagine, which traditional Christianity seems to have topped, if anybody can believe it.

Babylon the Great will fall. If only people knew where all of this crud comes from......
Beware...though babylon was burned...they still ate her flesh...this doctrine is alive and well...and business is booming as usual...with merchandising and all...

Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the *****, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall EAT HER FLESH, and burn her with fire.

And Jesus said, "EAT MY FLESH" (The Word of God)...

Peace!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2010, 09:33 AM
 
Location: US
27,954 posts, read 15,043,765 times
Reputation: 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
Beware...though babylon was burned...they still ate her flesh...this doctrine is alive and well...and business is booming as usual...with merchandising and all...

Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the *****, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall EAT HER FLESH, and burn her with fire.

And Jesus said, "EAT MY FLESH" (The Word of God)...

Peace!
Ok...where are you going with that?...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2010, 03:09 PM
 
5,499 posts, read 4,572,386 times
Reputation: 5149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Ok...where are you going with that?...
"organized religion"...

Blessings...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2010, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Florida -
8,760 posts, read 10,834,959 times
Reputation: 16632
What astonished them? and Who is worthy of Salvation? --- The answer to both is found in GRACE!
They were astonished because NO ONE can achieve righteousness by human effort. Further, NO ONE is worthy of Salvation. "GRACE" is both amazing and astonishing! ... and if it could be achieved by works or merit (worthiness), it would not be GRACE!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2010, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,489,911 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
What astonished them? and Who is worthy of Salvation? --- The answer to both is found in GRACE!
They were astonished because NO ONE can achieve righteousness by human effort. Further, NO ONE is worthy of Salvation. "GRACE" is both amazing and astonishing! ... and if it could be achieved by works or merit (worthiness), it would not be GRACE!
That, too!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top