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Old 07-08-2010, 07:23 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashskeet View Post
All are one. Open eyes open ears and allow wisdom and understanding to enter. baptism must be done in the name of All.
And what if the name of "All" to do this is the name of Jesus Christ, the name above every other name?

The fact that the disciples demonstrated this is hardly reaching for a false teaching. Is it not odd that Peter and even Paul were not specifying as doing it in the name of the Three Persons of God as in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost? But what if they did do this as in the name of God is Jesus Christ?

AND, how far do you think christianity would have gone if they did not baptize in Jesus' name but in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit in a "One God" belief among the Jews that they were told to preach the Gospel unto first?" I do believe they would have been stoned to death as soon as converts were made among the Jews at Pentecost.... even the new converts may have become unconverted. If believers today are having trouble understanding the doctrine of the "Trinity", surely it is not that hard to imagine what new converts would be going through when an uprising among disbelieving Jews within their own community would cry out blasphemy on the same charge that got Jesus crucified.

So the practise today of baptizing in the name of the Three Persons should be done as the disciples understood and did: because the name of God is Jesus Christ the Lord....and that is why His name IS above every other name to the glory of God the Father.
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Old 07-08-2010, 07:48 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
Jesus paid the price and was granted the Honor to mediate between believers and the Lord for their salvation into the family of God .....Water baptism gives proof to Heaven that the believer is serious and willing to repent and turn from sin that must be rejected then and forever more ,
And what if that believer finds that he slips up and sin? Does that mean he was not serious and not "fully" willing? Does that mean he must be baptized with water again?

Quote:
and must be able body willing to love the Lord and excercise faith to help love the Lord and his neighbour....... and when the Lord is convinced then that in a believer will be Baptised by Holy Spirit where all the gifts and calling come from ....Glory to God.......
Then pray tell how the Gentiles were baptized with the Holy Ghost before confessing with their mouths that they had believed in Jesus Christ, let alone "come forward to be baptized by water" in order to receive the Holy Ghost?

Acts 10:34Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all 37That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

And while you are pondering this: what is the name of the Lord for them to be baptized by? The Father , The Son, and the Holy Ghost? That is not the name of the Lord. That is Who God is. Can it be that Jesus Christ is the name of the Lord and that is why His name is above every other name which is still giving glory to God the Father??
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Old 07-08-2010, 07:55 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Baptism into Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Father is not a water baptism - FYI.
You mean one does not receive the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ as being pivotal on water baptism, but by belief in Jesus Christ? Then I agree.

However, your statement of incorporating the actual name of God, Jesus, in with the Holy Spirit and the Father instead of referring the Person of the Son may be a bit confusing for the truth I am sharing by His grace.

The OP explains more.
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:29 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
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Catholic view on the Trinitarian Baptism with many writings of Church Fathers on the subject:
Trinitarian Baptism

Excerpt:

"Jesus Only" Pentecostals also argue that the New Testament talks about people being baptized "in the name of Jesus," but there are only four such passages (Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, and 19:5). Further, these passages do not use the same designation in each place (some say "Lord Jesus," other say "Jesus Christ"), indicating that they were not technical formulas used in the baptism but simply descriptions by Luke. These four descriptions are not to be considered as a substitute for or contradiction of the divine command of the Lord Jesus Christ to: "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19).

Rather, the phrase "baptized in the name of Jesus" is simply Luke’s way to distinguish Christian baptism from other baptisms of the period, such as John’s baptism (which Luke mentions in Acts 1:5, 22, 10:37, 11:16, 13:24, 18:25, 19:4), Jewish proselyte baptism, and the baptisms of pagan cults (such as Mithraism). It also indicates the person into whose Mystical Body baptism incorporates us (Rom. 6:3).

....

"After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. If you have no living water, then baptize in other water, and if you are not able in cold, then in warm. If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Before baptism, let the one baptizing and the one to be baptized fast, as also any others who are able. Command the one who is to be baptized to fast beforehand for one or two days" (
Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).

Last edited by juj; 07-08-2010 at 09:00 AM..
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:31 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
Water baptism is not necessary.
Water baptism is not necessary for salvation: however, if a new convert wishes to be baptized in the name of Jesus, be far it be from me to forbid it.

It is Jesus Christ that saves as He is called the Saviour for a reason. To imply a means as necessary for that salvation to be imparted is denying Him as able to save thus taking away the glory of Him being the Saviour.

Quote:
You can do it a million times over and you will still be the same exact person. Jesus did it because He didn't come here to change the world. He came bringing the glad tidings about our Father in Heaven and how to become At-One with Him.

Baptism with God's Divine Love is the only baptism that will make a difference. One drop of this Love will start to change you from the inside. As you acquire more and more of it, you slowly become perfect as our Father is perfect. No water baptism can do that. It only gets you wet. Divine Love keeps you dry and gives you a new heart.
This is where we defer. To imply that a continual filling of the baptism of the Spirit is a false witness or as in this case, the phenomenon of supernaturally receiving something other than at salvation is nothing short but preaching another spirit to receive, be it calling that reception Divine Love or the Holy Spirit.

That is why when we are saved, we are filled so that there is a rest when we come to Jesus Christ wherein we do not hunger nor thirst anymore.

Matthew 9:17Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

The suggestion of continually seeking to be filled with the Spirit or Divine Love is to bear false witness that the vessel is leaking, and they were not filled when they were saved. Both suggestions in seeking to receive something supernaturally is the warning believers were to be aware of.

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Because there are false spirits in the world, all invitations in getting to know God the Father is by coming to and learning of the Person of the Son because by knowing the Son, you know the Father. The only personal thing we can know of the Holy Spirit is that He dwells within us as promised by Jesus Christ so that believers are not led astray by other spirits stealing the spotlight from the Son, Jesus Christ, in the worship place.... or in their individual lives.

Anything that comes inbetween you and Jesus is a thief.

John 10:7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

That is why the Holy Spirit dwells within us and not serving as a go between us and Jesus and that is why to avoid false prophets as well as the spirits of the anti-christs, all invitations are still pointing to the Son in having that relationship with God the Father. You cannot know God by any other way: and certainly not by the new age rudiment either.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber....

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

But if your stance and beliefs are transitional as one taking "truths" from a "spirit guide" so as to disregard His words in the Bible, then your belief that God is not able to raise up followers that loved Him and keep His words are going to continue to lead you every other way from knowing Him personally through the written words as kept by those that loved Him.

John 14: 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Do you believe that the disciples that loved Jesus would have kept His words and those that followed Him kept His words at Antioch?

Only the RCC has shown their lack of love for His words by not keeping them so that their traditions of labouring in unbelief shackles those asleep to the "Church" through catholicism. And yet, their leaven is spreading even to the Protestant churches, but the works of darkness can be reproved by His words kept in the King James Bible as surely as what you are teaching is also of the world...no matter how flowery you make it.

That is why there is no other calling nor any other invitation or any other spirit to receive or to receive the Holy Spirit again because the glory of God in salvation which is in Jesus Christ will not be shared by any other moment as we are to be witnesses of the Son: the Good News to man, and not new age channelling with a christian lable on it as if there is another "step" we must take and thus cannot rest in Jesus Christ as promised when we were saved.. which is, of course, a lie because we can rest in Him when we were saved as we are filled, and sealed as His.
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
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He is the way the truth and the life there is no other but Jesus.
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:09 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
Catholic view on the Trinitarian Baptism:
Trinitarian Baptism
Thank you for sharing your views however, certain pause must be given.

At your link: It tries to set the precedent that the baptism in Jesus name is not a formula as it defers slightly among the references, and thus somehow, from the actual application as done by the disciples of what Jesus has said, the RCC has declared "indirectly" that the disciples did it wrong by deflecting the obviousness of scriptures as a "Pentecostal teaching", and that the Church managed to return it to the way it was supposed to be done: in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

The precedent is lacking foundation: if the disciples did it in the name of Jesus, then how can the RCC knows better what Jesus had meant? It is using Matthew 28:19 to override Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, and 19:5, but yet they fail to mention this reference on how water baptism is not a requirment for Jesus to save anyone.

1 Corinthians 1: 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Quote:
"The faithful are born anew by Baptism..." Pg. 311, #1212

"Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, and are incorporated into the Church..." Pg. 312, #1213

"The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation." Pg. 320, #1257

"The Church does not know of any other means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude..." Pg. 320, #1257

"By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin." Pg. 321, #1263

"Baptism not only purifies from all sins, but also makes the neophyte 'a new creature,' an adopted son of God, who has become a 'partaker of the divine nature,' member of Christ and co-heir with him, and a temple of the Holy Spirit." Pg. 322, #1265
Ephesians 1: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Matthew 26:28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Romans 3: 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Colossians 1:12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Contrary to the quotes from the catechism, it is not water baptism that cleanses us from all sin, but by the blood of Jesus Christ as initiated by believing in Jesus Christ which is the same as trusting that God has done it. To believe otherwise is to incur wrath.

Hebrews 10:28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. 32But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;

That is the same thing as reminding you of the Good News you heard in the beginning on how you are saved as it is Jesus Christ that has saved us. That is the only way we can be witnesses of the Good News now: otherwise, catholicism voids the simplicity of the Gospel and voids the faith in Jesus Christ and thus leads believers to labour in unbelief.

If anything divides your hope, then that singular hope ceases to be hope. Let nothing divide your hope in Jesus Christ: Not the RCC nor catholicism.

So as the RCC even defers from Paul on these references from scriptures, should you not take pause on what the RCC has stated at that site since water baptism does not cleanses us from all sin as it is obvious that the emphasis that the RCC is stressing is not present in the New Testament?
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:15 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
He is the way the truth and the life there is no other but Jesus.
Romans 5:10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

2 Corinthians 5:17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Amen. Water baptism can never receive nor share in the glory of God in salvation which is in Jesus Christ as He has earned the full right and title of being the Saviour.
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Not that i would make a doctrine out of it , but why would the disciples go and baptize in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ after Jesus told them to do so in the name of the Father , Son and Holy Ghost ?

To me they fully understood He meant Lord Jesus Christ otherwise they would have baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
I thank the Lord that you have seen the truth.

It is not so much as making a doctrine out of it, but certainly to reprove the doctrines that is not based as a "practise" given in scriptures.
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:28 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
These are the kinds of questions that get people thrown out of churches! I know that from personal experience.
And that is why silence is not bliss.

If one never questions, then one either continue in that which is error and thus not abiding in Him in keeping the faith or those that have questions will never have an answer so that they may grow in the faith.
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