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Old 07-03-2010, 05:20 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,298,212 times
Reputation: 869

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Hello everyone,
with love in my heart for everyone here, regardless of the doctrine they adhere to, I'd like to share with you what I see as contradictions with hell/annihilation doctrine. I hope to hear from everybody on these!

The contradictions of eternal hell/annihilation: 1.Hellfire/annihilation preachers say that eternal torment must be preached. But it is nowhere to be found in the Book of Acts nor in the epistles of Paul the Apostle. 2.Hellfire/annihilation preachers will tell you that sinners go straight to hell. But at funerals they can hardly acknowledge this. 3.They tell people that God doesn't want “robots,” but you are required to “subject every thought unto the obedience of Christ.” 4.They tell you that God's mercy endureth forever, but then they tell you that after death there is no more mercy. 5.They tell you that God doesn't “impose” Himself on people, but if you don't do as they say, He will impose hell on you. 6.They say that God created all things by Jesus Christ, but then they say that God did not create the devil, demons, hell, evil, etc. 7.They say that God didn't create evil, but then they say that He needs evil in order for us to “choose Christ.” 8.They say that God is everywhere, but if you end up in hell you will be separated from Him. 9.They say that they have the Spirit of Christ, but they themselves would not give their lives for Christ, as He Himself did. 10.They say that man is dead, a slave to sin, and blind. But then they tell you that the dead can choose life, the slave is free to leave sin, and that the blind can “see” if they choose to. 11.They say that man must “choose Christ” of his own free will, but then they condemn unbelievers for being self-willed. 12.They say that Christians should “pray for the lost,” but then they tell you that man must choose Christ of his own will, free from the influence of God or anyone else.
Please, discussion with PEACE.
Blessings to everyone here,
brian
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Old 07-03-2010, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,687,052 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hello everyone,
with love in my heart for everyone here, regardless of the doctrine they adhere to, I'd like to share with you what I see as contradictions with hell/annihilation doctrine. I hope to hear from everybody on these!

The contradictions of eternal hell/annihilation:

1.Hellfire/annihilation preachers say that eternal torment must be preached. But it is nowhere to be found in the Book of Acts nor in the epistles of Paul the Apostle.
Yep... there is no hell teaching but there is destruction teaching... destruction of the religious system of that day and was fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem.

Quote:
2.Hellfire/annihilation preachers will tell you that sinners go straight to hell. But at funerals they can hardly acknowledge this.
Yes it is rude to tell the loved ones of the newly departed (to hell) that they are in hell. But the fact that they are burning in hell isn't rude apparently...

Quote:
3.They tell people that God doesn't want “robots,” but you are required to “subject every thought unto the obedience of Christ.”
Everyone thinks they know what God wants but when it is clear in scripture what God wants (all men to be saved) they deny it... very sad indeed.

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4.They tell you that God's mercy endureth forever, but then they tell you that after death there is no more mercy.
Right... because that would mean that everyone is deserving of mercy and they would then have to be merciful to those they deem undeserving.
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5.They tell you that God doesn't “impose” Himself on people, but if you don't do as they say, He will impose hell on you.
It's like God is on default mode... worship him or you are defaulted to hell... that is not the God I know... but it does resemble the OT picture of God that Jesus tried to show the error of to the leaders of the Jewish people.


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6.They say that God created all things by Jesus Christ, but then they say that God did not create the devil, demons, hell, evil, etc.
They ignore scripture that states otherwise...

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7.They say that God didn't create evil, but then they say that He needs evil in order for us to “choose Christ.”
And it is our choice whether or not we give in to this evil which opposes God... even if you are not aware you are making any choice at all...The default is hell because no one in their right mind would choose to burn for eternity!

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8.They say that God is everywhere, but if you end up in hell you will be separated from Him.
Yes... how can God be everywhere if he isn't in hell... some early pictures show believers in balconies in their heavenly mansions looking down into hell and watching the suffering of others.... sad..sad.

Quote:
9.They say that they have the Spirit of Christ, but they themselves would not give their lives for Christ, as He Himself did.
Yet they are somehow being persecuted when others disagree with their doctrines. In a thread a while back there was a question about giving your time in heaven if God emptied hell.... (this is what CHRIST DID) and most said they would NOT give up their spot in heaven for others.....


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10.They say that man is dead, a slave to sin, and blind. But then they tell you that the dead can choose life, the slave is free to leave sin, and that the blind can “see” if they choose to.
And if they refuse to see...they burn in hell by default. You forgot that they say that a man who is deceived will also burn in hell even though he is deceived... because somehow being deceived is a choice.

Quote:
11.They say that man must “choose Christ” of his own free will, but then they condemn unbelievers for being self-willed.
And add to that that when the unbeliever stands in witness to God after death (if that is what happens) they will still refuse or it is too late then to believe. Thomas had to see to believe and yet he didn't suffer in hell. So really you have to make a choice within the span of your lifetime even though you won't have any proof until after you are dead...supposedly.


Quote:
12.They say that Christians should “pray for the lost,” but then they tell you that man must choose Christ of his own will, free from the influence of God or anyone else.
Please, discussion with PEACE.
Blessings to everyone here,
brian
Yes... prayer is quite ineffective if God can't save someone without their own consent. In fact some go as far as to say that an unbeliever's prayer is not heard by God.. it is a wonder that God saves anyone at all!

Great post Brian.... Somehow people need to wake up and smell the coffee brewing. These things not only contradict scripture and the spirit of what is good and holy but also contradict one's own heart. If you wouldn't burn your drug addict cousin for eternity then why would you think God would?
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Old 07-03-2010, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
987 posts, read 910,210 times
Reputation: 295
hmmm, no one is DESERVING of mercy, else it would not be mercy.

But yes, how do you preach that God's mercy is neverending, if it ends at death? That is a bit of a connundrum. Perhaps in that rare instance, forever does NOT really mean forever?
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Old 07-03-2010, 11:31 AM
 
309 posts, read 304,545 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hello everyone,
with love in my heart for everyone here, regardless of the doctrine they adhere to, I'd like to share with you what I see as contradictions with hell/annihilation doctrine. I hope to hear from everybody on these!

The contradictions of eternal hell/annihilation: 1.Hellfire/annihilation preachers say that eternal torment must be preached. But it is nowhere to be found in the Book of Acts nor in the epistles of Paul the Apostle. 2.Hellfire/annihilation preachers will tell you that sinners go straight to hell. But at funerals they can hardly acknowledge this. 3.They tell people that God doesn't want “robots,” but you are required to “subject every thought unto the obedience of Christ.” 4.They tell you that God's mercy endureth forever, but then they tell you that after death there is no more mercy. 5.They tell you that God doesn't “impose” Himself on people, but if you don't do as they say, He will impose hell on you. 6.They say that God created all things by Jesus Christ, but then they say that God did not create the devil, demons, hell, evil, etc. 7.They say that God didn't create evil, but then they say that He needs evil in order for us to “choose Christ.” 8.They say that God is everywhere, but if you end up in hell you will be separated from Him. 9.They say that they have the Spirit of Christ, but they themselves would not give their lives for Christ, as He Himself did. 10.They say that man is dead, a slave to sin, and blind. But then they tell you that the dead can choose life, the slave is free to leave sin, and that the blind can “see” if they choose to. 11.They say that man must “choose Christ” of his own free will, but then they condemn unbelievers for being self-willed. 12.They say that Christians should “pray for the lost,” but then they tell you that man must choose Christ of his own will, free from the influence of God or anyone else.
Please, discussion with PEACE.
Blessings to everyone here,
brian
Yes Brian....these reasonings come from a 'carnal' mind. Most of what the carnal mind computes is the exact opposite of the 'spiritual' mind. It is funny that Christ, for the most part, shunned and left the Pharasees/Scribes to their own 'carnal' thoughts. This is what we contend with today among the many in Christendom.

As to the 'will' to choose. If one stands 'for' or 'against' what is called Freewill, either way we are to deny it, for Christ Himself stated several times in certain terms 'not my will, but the Fathers'. Man, indeed, is sinning machine and apart from God, he can do no other. A read of Job in light of 'freewill' is very eye opening.

Good post Brian
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Old 07-03-2010, 08:23 PM
 
697 posts, read 915,394 times
Reputation: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletWren View Post
hmmm, no one is DESERVING of mercy, else it would not be mercy.

But yes, how do you preach that God's mercy is neverending, if it ends at death? That is a bit of a connundrum. Perhaps in that rare instance, forever does NOT really mean forever?
Wow, good post!

I kind of think of it differently - God may withhold mercy during life (how else to explain what happens to so many good people who live in poverty, suffer illnesses, are victims of vile crimes, live in war torn countries, and on and on while meanwhile truly horrible people gain riches, win elections, have good health, get off scott free for crimes and on and on and on) but God grants mercy after death.
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Old 07-03-2010, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,442,809 times
Reputation: 420
Not one verse to back up any claims after 5 posts....hmmmmm
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Old 07-03-2010, 08:55 PM
 
697 posts, read 915,394 times
Reputation: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Not one verse to back up any claims after 5 posts....hmmmmm

Ha! Haven't you been reading the Curse of the Verse thread? I thought maybe quoting verses was passe! LOL
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Old 07-03-2010, 09:01 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,803 posts, read 7,380,709 times
Reputation: 2960
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmalltownKSgirl View Post
Ha! Haven't you been reading the Curse of the Verse thread? I thought maybe quoting verses was passe! LOL
Hey!

I prefer full passages (complete written thoughts or themes) as opposed to shotgun verses.
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Old 07-03-2010, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,442,809 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Hey!

I prefer full passages (complete written thoughts or themes) as opposed to shotgun verses.
Now that's the right answer!
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Old 07-03-2010, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,496,609 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hello everyone,
with love in my heart for everyone here, regardless of the doctrine they adhere to, I'd like to share with you what I see as contradictions with hell/annihilation doctrine. I hope to hear from everybody on these!

The contradictions of eternal hell/annihilation: 1.Hellfire/annihilation preachers say that eternal torment must be preached. But it is nowhere to be found in the Book of Acts nor in the epistles of Paul the Apostle. 2.Hellfire/annihilation preachers will tell you that sinners go straight to hell. But at funerals they can hardly acknowledge this. 3.They tell people that God doesn't want “robots,” but you are required to “subject every thought unto the obedience of Christ.” 4.They tell you that God's mercy endureth forever, but then they tell you that after death there is no more mercy. 5.They tell you that God doesn't “impose” Himself on people, but if you don't do as they say, He will impose hell on you. 6.They say that God created all things by Jesus Christ, but then they say that God did not create the devil, demons, hell, evil, etc. 7.They say that God didn't create evil, but then they say that He needs evil in order for us to “choose Christ.” 8.They say that God is everywhere, but if you end up in hell you will be separated from Him. 9.They say that they have the Spirit of Christ, but they themselves would not give their lives for Christ, as He Himself did. 10.They say that man is dead, a slave to sin, and blind. But then they tell you that the dead can choose life, the slave is free to leave sin, and that the blind can “see” if they choose to. 11.They say that man must “choose Christ” of his own free will, but then they condemn unbelievers for being self-willed. 12.They say that Christians should “pray for the lost,” but then they tell you that man must choose Christ of his own will, free from the influence of God or anyone else.
Please, discussion with PEACE.
Blessings to everyone here,
brian
It's enough to make one go mad, I tell ya. I'm glad I started studying and didn't just drop everything. It's been worth it.
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