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Old 07-03-2010, 05:49 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,801 posts, read 7,370,211 times
Reputation: 2960

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For those of you who profess to have achieved perfection and now you never sin and obey the law of God.

Do you believe that being sinless in order to be saved is something that came about after Jesus died, or has it always been so?

If you believe it has always been so, how do you explain Genesis 15:6 where it is said about Abraham "And he believed in Jehovah; and he reckoned it to him for righteousness."

It says nothing about Abraham keeping God's law in order to be saved, it only talks about faith. What gives?
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Old 07-03-2010, 11:46 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
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No takers? Come on Verna, is that a "lie"?
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Old 07-04-2010, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,423,150 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
For those of you who profess to have achieved perfection and now you never sin and obey the law of God.
You aren't speaking to me, because I've NEVER professed to have achieved perfection. I am being perfected every hour of every day. I do not commit willfull sin, and I do obey the Ten Commandments of God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
Do you believe that being sinless in order to be saved is something that came about after Jesus died, or has it always been so?
I do not believe that being sinless in order to be saved came about after Jesus died...nor do I believe that it has always been so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
If you believe it has always been so, how do you explain Genesis 15:6 where it is said about Abraham "And he believed in Jehovah; and he reckoned it to him for righteousness."
n/a

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
It says nothing about Abraham keeping God's law in order to be saved, it only talks about faith. What gives?
Correct. It does say that, and it is the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
No takers? Come on Verna, is that a "lie"?
I do not have a problem at all in commenting on a topic that relates to something that I can speak about intelligently. This topic shows only ignorance. Has nothing to do with me. You're on your own.
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Old 07-04-2010, 12:19 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,801 posts, read 7,370,211 times
Reputation: 2960
Do you believe in order to be saved you must obey all 10 commandments?

If so how was Abraham saved if he did not, he just had faith?

Why not all 613 laws BTW?

Also isn't never sinning perfection? You confuse me. Why am I such a lier if you don't believe what I question?
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Old 07-04-2010, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,763,184 times
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The book of Romans takes great pains to explain that no one will ever be justified by keeping the law:

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. - Romans 8:3-4

But that fact has never stopped the purported law keepers from boasting in their ability to "keep the law",which I assume was your point in starting this thread. But surely you realize that you can't get rid of hypocrisy and 'holier-than-thou~ism' by attacking it head on, don't you?What good does it do to hit a hornets nest with a stick?
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Old 07-04-2010, 12:28 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,801 posts, read 7,370,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
The book of Romans takes great pains to explain that no one will ever be justified by keeping the law:

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. - Romans 8:3-4

But that fact has never stopped the purported law keepers from boasting in their ability to "keep the law",which I assume was your point in starting this thread. But surely you realize that you can't get rid of hypocrisy and 'holier-than-thou~ism' by attacking it head on, don't you?What good does it do to hit a hornets nest with a stick?
It exposes it.

When I wrote that it is what Jesus DID and not what we do, I was called liar. I would like to hear a good explanation how Abraham could be saved just by having faith. If what I said was a "lie" as she puts it, I would love to hear her spin this.
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Old 07-04-2010, 12:32 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,423,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Do you believe in order to be saved you must obey all 10 commandments?
No. You have not been paying attention to the hundred's of times the difference of being "saved" and seeing one's "salvation" has been explained. I don't think I'll go through it again, there are plenty of thread's on the subject for you to read and learn from though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
If so how was Abraham saved if he did not, he just had faith?
n/a

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
Why not all 613 laws BTW?
This has been explained hundred's of times as well hilgi...you have not paid attention...go find the threads that explain this too...that is...if you truly care to learn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
Also isn't never sinning perfection?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
You confuse me.
Not me...God's Word does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
Why am I such a lier if you don't believe what I question?
Now you confuse me hilgi.
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Old 07-04-2010, 12:38 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,801 posts, read 7,370,211 times
Reputation: 2960
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
No. You have not been paying attention to the hundred's of times the difference of being "saved" and seeing one's "salvation" has been explained. I don't think I'll go through it again, there are plenty of thread's on the subject for you to read and learn from though.

n/a

This has been explained hundred's of times as well hilgi...you have not paid attention...go find the threads that explain this too...that is...if you truly care to learn.

Yes.

Not me...God's Word does.

Now you confuse me hilgi.
In order to enter Heaven do you personally have to obey all 10 commandments?

Read the "sin" post where you said I was lying.
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Old 07-04-2010, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,423,150 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
In order to enter Heaven do you personally have to obey all 10 commandments?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
Read the "sin" post where you said I was lying.
o.k...let's look...

[quote=Verna Perry;14873933]

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
The point some of us are making is you are free from all those sins because what Jesus DID, not because of what you do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna
...lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
Focus on the amazing grace of Jesus; he removed the barrier when he died for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna
...truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
Putting your sights on him will help cleanse your flesh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna
...truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
...but as long as you focus on the sins of the flesh they will be top of mind, not Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna
...lie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
God is pleased with you because of what Jesus did, not what you do or don’t do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna
...lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
Your fruit of all of this will be love,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna
...nope..not all that you posted above...some of it is a lie...and the fruit of the "lie" part will not be love...it will be death to the soul....separation from God forever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
...sure you will still sin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna
...sure you will...until you are truly born-again, changed!...into the character of Christ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
...but if you are focused on loving others and Jesus those sins will reduce with time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna
..truth.
I don't see where I said you were lying about anything you were telling the truth to.
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Old 07-04-2010, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,763,184 times
Reputation: 1590
Verna,

I doubt you'll bother answering this, but didn't I read somewhere that you believe one must keep the Saturday sabbath? Isn't that what you and brother Winters got in a tizz about the other day? I know several 7th Day Adventists, and I know that they teach that Sunday worship is the 'Mark of the Beast', in fact they even put that message on billboards to draw in the fearful.
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