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Old 07-07-2010, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
4,390 posts, read 4,228,014 times
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Oak I had much difficulty sitting through "The Cove" several times I wanted to turn it off.
It was an eye openner for me, I think everyone should watch it.
These slaughters take place to dolphins and whales in other locations throughout the world.

Even if these slaughters were to stop tomorrow there is still a big problem with the fact that these intelligent creatures are being held captive in Seaworld and many other places.

Dolphins in a tank are severely restricted in using their highly developed sonar, which is one of the most damaging aspects of captivity. It is much like forcing a person to live in a hall of mirrors for the rest of their life - their image always bouncing back with no clear direction in sight.
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Old 07-07-2010, 06:20 PM
 
5,499 posts, read 4,583,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyspider View Post
Without discounting the sentiments expressed in this thread, isn't it a bit extreme to say the dolphins understand God better than humans? I mean, dolphins have also been known to fight one another and kill other species.

I highly suspect my words in this post will not be well received, but please don't misunderstand my sentiments, and don't presume I'm a heartless person who feels it's okay to harm dolphins or mistreat animals - because I'm not like that at all. However, when dolphins come up with technological advances to benefit their species...oh let's say, for example, by developing medicines or building hospitals to treat not only other dolphins, but other species as well...then perhaps we can talk about their intelligence, compassion, and ability to understand God better than humans.
I totally understand where you're coming from shyspider...but just for banter's sake...don't you think that human wisdom and technology are the very thing that is destroying our earth?

Blessings to you...
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Old 07-07-2010, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
4,390 posts, read 4,228,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyspider View Post
Without discounting the sentiments expressed in this thread, isn't it a bit extreme to say the dolphins understand God better than humans? I mean, dolphins have also been known to fight one another and kill other species.

I highly suspect my words in this post will not be well received, but please don't misunderstand my sentiments, and don't presume I'm a heartless person who feels it's okay to harm dolphins or mistreat animals - because I'm not like that at all. However, when dolphins come up with technological advances to benefit their species...oh let's say, for example, by developing medicines or building hospitals to treat not only other dolphins, but other species as well...then perhaps we can talk about their intelligence, compassion, and ability to understand God better than humans.
I don't think anyone said they understand God better than humans.
No one even said they understand God at all, just that the possibility is there that they may have some kind of moral code which is the basic ingredient of faith, like us they have self awareness.

Last edited by ted08721; 07-07-2010 at 06:35 PM..
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Old 07-07-2010, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
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Why dolphins are deep thinkers | Science | The Guardian
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Old 07-07-2010, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
4,390 posts, read 4,228,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyspider View Post
dolphins have also been known to fight one another and kill other species.

.
You mean like us?
Although they have a lot of catching up to do to get to our level of killing etc.
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Old 07-07-2010, 07:33 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 23,018,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyspider View Post
Without discounting the sentiments expressed in this thread, isn't it a bit extreme to say the dolphins understand God better than humans? I mean, dolphins have also been known to fight one another and kill other species.

I highly suspect my words in this post will not be well received, but please don't misunderstand my sentiments, and don't presume I'm a heartless person who feels it's okay to harm dolphins or mistreat animals - because I'm not like that at all. However, when dolphins come up with technological advances to benefit their species...oh let's say, for example, by developing medicines or building hospitals to treat not only other dolphins, but other species as well...then perhaps we can talk about their intelligence, compassion, and ability to understand God better than humans.
When something is "other" people seem to have a tendency to either idealize it or demonize it. Hence when whites first entered the Americas the indigenous people were either portrayed as idyllic beings who maybe didn't even have original sin or they were deemed monstrous savages who might not even be human. If you think about movies where we contact extraterrestrials they tend to be either vaguely angelic or monsters.

Dolphins have been subject to both things. I know of people who deem dolphins to be "frat-boy gang-rapists" of the sea. As well as the more classic image of them as intelligent and noble creatures who help people.

Now in the case of peoples, like the American Indian, this idealized/demonized thing can be reduced just by getting to know them. In the case of dolphins that's not as doable as we don't really understand their language or how to "get to know them." Presumably dolphins are quite different than us without being ideal or monstrous.

Anyway yeah being a guardian of nature and avoiding unnecessary acts of cruelty to animals is important.
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Old 07-07-2010, 07:40 PM
 
40,252 posts, read 26,848,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
I don't think anyone said they understand God better than humans.
No one even said they understand God at all, just that the possibility is there that they may have some kind of moral code which is the basic ingredient of faith, like us they have self awareness.
If as was pointed out . . . they have intelligence equivalent to australopithecus . . . we better hope they don't find God and recreate the whole savage history that humankind did. j/k . . . they are superb animals . . . and I agree about our responsibility to them and all life on the earth.
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Old 07-07-2010, 08:56 PM
 
621 posts, read 1,055,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
I totally understand where you're coming from shyspider...but just for banter's sake...don't you think that human wisdom and technology are the very thing that is destroying our earth?
I think you may have missed the part of my post in which I stated "technological advances to benefit their species". I didn't say that all human wisdom or technology was beneficial. But likewise, I don't believe it is all destructive, either. The point I was trying to make was that not all human endeavors are evil, and thus some comments I've read by others are perhaps a bit extreme.
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Old 07-07-2010, 08:59 PM
 
621 posts, read 1,055,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
I don't think anyone said they understand God better than humans.
To quote ans57: "Ohh, I love dolphins and have heard many stories about how they've saved humans at times. Yes...it would seem that they understand God better than us."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
No one even said they understand God at all, just that the possibility is there that they may have some kind of moral code which is the basic ingredient of faith, like us they have self awareness.
And I didn't say anything about that, did I?
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:22 PM
 
7,816 posts, read 10,720,792 times
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June remembers about a year or so ago (?) watching a documentary which she thinks (but can't accurately remember) was about the making of "The Cove." Essentially, she had to turn it off, as, like Oakback, her sentiments resonated with his, below:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post

The torture and slaughter of dolphins is beyond my ability to tolerate.

If it was me, I'd have taken an M-16 instead of a camera.

There are some things that will rip June's heart out in one heartbeat, and the slaughter of animals ranks way too high on that list.

--Especially dolphins, because...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shyspider View Post
Without discounting the sentiments expressed in this thread, isn't it a bit extreme to say the dolphins understand God better than humans?

I highly suspect my words in this post will not be well received, but please don't misunderstand my sentiments, and don't presume I'm a heartless person who feels it's okay to harm dolphins or mistreat animals - because I'm not like that at all. However, when dolphins come up with technological advances to benefit their species...oh let's say, for example, by developing medicines or building hospitals to treat not only other dolphins, but other species as well...then perhaps we can talk about their intelligence, compassion, and ability to understand God better than humans.

June doesn't think you are "heartless" at all, shyspider, nor does she wish to "misinterpret" your words. June is aware of the fact that dolphins are not among our greatest of hopes as regards who may ever cure cancer. Dolphins will never cure any diseases, or write Nobel Prize winning books. But even the little heathen June questions the minimizing of dolphins and "God."

June would have absolutely no idea whether or not dolphins possess the capacity to "understand God." Hell, June herself doesn't have the capacity to "understand God" so she therefore can't address which of either of us (June v. dolphins) has a 'leg up' in that regard! June would say, however, that to her way of thinking, the issue isn't whether dolphins possess that capacity, but rather, this:

Dolphins, June would like to believe, would seem to point to some kind of understanding as regards your God and His mysteries. They would seemingly so point to some degree of understanding your God that it would almost make June question her own disbelief. We're talking about a breed that is as relational, as communicative, as inter-related and devoted to one another as any June is aware of. There's something in that; there is "something" in that. In short, they relate to one another with a loyalty and connectedness that strikes June as enviable to any human being reading her post.

So what is that? What is "that" which bonds, which inter-connects with such a fierce, instinctual inter-relatedness in an animal that it could both challenge and defy the minds or hearts of human beings in so enviable a way? We all, after all, ARE human beings. We strive to find a cure for cancer. We strive and at times do find cures for diseases. We certainly have been known to write Nobel Prize calliber books. --And yet, to what extent can we make the same claims as instinctively as those dolphins can?

Just how 'inter-related' and aware of our 'instinctive connectedness' are we, we wonderous humans?

~June thinks if God existed, He would have invented dolphins as a means of directly pointing to the inner process/workings and instinctual dynamics of His own Self.

It's just that easy, folks...


Take gentle mammal care.
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